Guest User 6/17/21 Guest User 6/17/21

Industry Perspectives: The Importance of Hiring for Diversity with Bhakti Patel

Mack Garrison and Meryn Hayes sat down with Bhakti Patel to speak on her experiences. Bhakti is a talented Art Director and 3D Motion Designer. She has worked with over a dozen studios including Imaginary Forces, Sarofsky, Cause + Effect, Perception NYC, and Current Studios.

Q&A with Bhakti Patel
Read time: 20min

“when you hire somebody and consider their diverse background, you're considering that they can tell stories in a very different way, and that's what we are at the end of the day. storytellers.”

Mack Garrison:

We appreciate you hopping on the call with us. This is Mack Garrison. I'm one of the founders of dash, we've also got Meryn Hayes, one of our producers here as well. First off, do you want to give us a bit of background? How did you discover motion design?

Bhakti Patel:

So, when I was in school, I initially was going the graphic design route. I found it a bit limiting. You can't go beyond a page or a billboard, at least that was my understanding at the time. I started to look into motion design, and a lot of that was discovered through finding a couple of studios like Imaginary Forces, Sarofsky, Elastic, and just looking at their body of work. I thought it was way more interesting. It also included graphic design, so your options become limitless. That's how I started to get interested. So, I ended up studying 3D animation. On the side, I would teach myself Cinema 4D because we were learning 3Ds Max in school.

Mack Garrison:

Oh, cool.

Bhakti Patel:

Yeah. Whatever I learned how to do in 3ds Max in the day, I'd go home and try to do it in C4D. AfterEffects and stuff were already things I'd been playing around with back in high school, but never really went far into. I started to get a little bit more into that, making little projects for myself. By junior year, I landed an internship at Sarofsky for the summer. Sarofsky - which is based in Chicago - had become a big thing because they had just finished the “Captain America: Winter Soldier” titles. Everybody in my class thought I was nuts to turn down an internship at Nickelodeon for a studio they didn't know about. But my biggest thing was that I wanted to work somewhere I would have the opportunity to work on bigger projects early on, in comparison to just a couple of keyframes at a huge studio. Also, Nickelodeon is more story-based, TV-based, while Sarofsky was more motion design-based.

The moment that I realized I was going to go full-on into motion design and away from TV and film, was when I went to SIGGRAPH as a student volunteer. I met a guy who told me a story about how he worked on Lord of the Rings. He was a crowd simulation artist, who had worked on this massive scene. He had worked on the scene for five months which is insane. I was like, "I'm so sorry, but I don't remember the scene," and he was like, "oh, it got cut." And, that was it. I did not want to go into film. The fact that you could work on something for so long and it could get cut. What I wanted to do was work on a lot of things, really quickly. Just constantly be experimenting, trying something new. Motion design was the realm to do that. So that was my big attraction towards the industry.

Mack Garrison:

That's so cool. It's one of the reasons that I got into it as well. I'm so ADD, with graphic design being a little limiting, and how static it is, I felt the same way. I was getting bored of my compositions, so it was like animation, motion, graphics. When we make something, I'll just animate it away. I'll start on something new. I love how quickly we move and hop around.

Do you think that your initial graphic design education helped shape the motion side when you were self-teaching with the Cinema 4D? I know we're in an interesting time right now where there's a lot of online classes. There are more tutorials, it’s more self-taught. Is there validation in getting some prerequisites of design fundamentals before getting into that stuff, or do you think it's easier now more than ever?

Bhakti Patel:

It depends on what you want to do with your career. If you want to grow into a creative director, art director, or motion designer, you need to be all those things. You have to have that fundamental background. If you just want to focus on animating, such as a keyframe movie, or taking somebody else's design and animating that, then I think you can get away with only focusing on that part. It depends on how you want to shape your career, but there's nothing wrong with going either way. It really depends on what you want for yourself.

Meryn Hayes:

Looking at all of the amazing work in your reel and on your website, how do you get connected to get a job, say on Black Panther? Maybe their goal isn't to get on a Marvel movie title, but they have a dream client or project. What's your advice on how to set your goal on something like that?

Bhakti Patel:

My first dream was to get into Imaginary Forces. When I was in college, around senior year, I had landed my job after graduation with Sarofsky as a junior designer for three months. A lot of my peers hadn't, they didn't have the connections. I was part of the animation department representation, so I had connections through the Career Development office. I asked them if I could take 10 students with me to New York for two days during our spring break. We could just go tour around a bunch of studios and make connections that way.

So, I set up one-hour sessions at a few studios; BUCK, Imaginary Forces, Hornet. As I was leaving Imaginary Forces, I asked Avan, "Hey, I love your guys' work. It's a huge inspiration for my thesis film. Do you mind if I send you guys a link once it's completed?" They said yes. From that thesis film, I ended up landing a junior designer position with them for the fall. So, after I'd done Sarofsky in Chicago, I went

Bhakti Patel:

Honestly, it's about the little things. For example, not being so in their face; being kind and respectful of their time. When I got to Imaginary Forces, it was me with a couple of interns, and there were certain things...little tasks that most people just didn’t want to do. I went the extra mile and that was enough to get noticed. Every job that I've had, I haven't applied for, which is crazy. I was always recommended.

When I was at Pepsi, it was a friend of a director at Imaginary Forces that connected me. Perception saw an article from the TV show titles that I worked on for Vinyl. At Facebook, I worked under Audrey Davis, who was this amazing director at The Mill, she was also at Imaginary Forces. We never worked directly together, but she saw the working relationship I had with Alan Williams and decided to take me with her. I've just been lucky that people have been pulling me around in this way. It's all about building really good, strong relationships and you end up getting recommended, or people will pull you along.

Meryn Hayes:

That’s amazing, it points to how the motion community is. It's very large in some ways, but also very small in others. It’s about making valuable connections, to your point, not getting in people's faces, but being genuine. It's also a right place, right time kind of thing. You happen to email somebody who thinks of you for a project.

Mack Garrison:

It just made me think of one interesting tidbit that I took away from that. Bhakti, speaking on that early hustle; reaching out, making connections, there's some hesitation when you're younger. That rejection or thinking you're bothering someone by asking them, "Hey, would you take a look at this," pushes you into not reaching out. I know myself, you, and Meryn too, we were all those young people first coming out, not knowing what we were doing. So, I'm always happy to help and reach out. It sounds like the advice you're saying is, make connections when you're first getting going. You have to be talented to get the work of course, but getting your foot in the door comes with meeting the right people and having people know who you are.

Bhakti Patel:

Definitely, and honestly I'm a complete introvert. It’s funny how things have worked out. But just putting yourself out there. It never hurts to step out of the box a little.

Mack Garrison:

How did you break that despite feeling uncomfortable? I'm sure there will be a lot of introverts who are reading through this blog post. Were there any steps or processes when you were doing all that stuff early on, coming out of school?

Bhakti Patel:

There was a little bit of extra drive to land somewhere, it was partially the fear of not landing a job. When you're early on, the struggles are tougher. I mean, in my first few years, I was working two to three freelance jobs at a time. You work and try a lot harder because there's that fear of the next one not coming. Everybody always tells you there's going to be a lull, that month that nothing comes. That used to scare the hell out of me. So I'd be like, "Okay, just in case, I'll take two this month." Then somewhere along the line, I realized I had just worked the whole year, two jobs, without ever taking time off. I desperately needed to slow down.

That's why I started going full-time, as an opportunity to force myself to take vacations and breaks. I think our generation has a little bit of that fear that’s built into us, given how we grew up with the economy, with student loans, and everything. It pushes us harder to get out of our comfort zones.

Mack Garrison:

I've been there myself, particularly before we started to dash. I was freelancing some and had that same issue where I was taking on more work. I didn't know where it was going to come from next. The same goes for the studio. When stuff comes in, we try to take on as much as we can.

I'll transition us a little bit back to what you were doing and then where you're going. You've had so much experience working on a variety of projects. I'm looking at your website, everything from Fox IDs, to Black Panther, to Vinyl. I know as you progressed in your career, you've probably been able to be more selective with the work that you take on. Looking back from when you first got into the field, are there certain types of projects that you like to do more than others? Have you found that you've become more niche in what you try to take on? Or, are you still at a point where you like to experiment and try new endeavors given they sound interesting and it's the right group of people to be working with?

“if you have the core skills and you know how to adapt to any medium, people pay attention.”

Bhakti Patel:

It's more of the latter. I like to be able to experiment, play around, and try new things. Anything that's piqued my interest will get some attention for sure. I like projects that have something I've never done before. When I was working on the American Horror Story teasers with Kenny Kegley, he asked me, "Have you ever animated a snake before?" I hadn’t but I promised I would figure it out.

If you have the core skills and you know how to adapt to any medium, people pay attention. When I was at Pepsi, I was doing global brand experience; the Super Bowl Halftime shows, social media campaigns, UEFA Champions League Opening Ceremony. Had I done anything even related to brand experience before? No. Not in the slightest, but they took a chance on me simply because the fundamentals were there. If you're honest about it, if you're telling them, "Hey, I know how to learn quickly," they'll give you a better chance than if you were just to walk in and be like, "I know everything, I can solve all your problems."

Mack Garrison:

I think that's so cool. As creators at heart, we always want to try something new and push our boundaries, but there's this fear that you're going to let someone down, or that you don't know fully how to do something. That reservation, unfortunately, will pull some creatives back from trying a project that’s in their wheelhouse. I think it's really good to echo your sentiment. Don't be cocky that you already know it, but be confident in your skillset and what you can learn.

Bhakti Patel:

You don't ever want to be confident in your ability to know everything, but your ability to learn. That's a good way to think about it. One is ego and one is a student mindset.

Meryn Hayes:

Knowing that you might not know everything when you're going into a job or project, and there may be a tight timeline, how do you practically set yourself up for success so that you don't over-commit and end up needing help? How do you balance not overpromising and under-delivering on something that you've never tried before?

Bhakti Patel:

There are some things I know for sure I can never learn. I won't try that stuff. For example, I can't do the 2D illustrative style. I know my limit, that's not my wheelhouse. But the things I know I could learn, for instance, there was a project that they wanted me to work on in Maya. I'm not a Maya artist, but it was pretty simple. It was being able to have that producer mindset. Thinking about how you're going to structure out, problem-solving, breaking it down into, “okay, I just need to learn how to model and texture.” I will watch one tutorial on modeling and another one on texturing or I will figure out how to model in C4D and bring it into Maya so that I can texture in there the way that they want it, so I can at least deliver the file that way.

It's trying to be more thoughtful in what you do and how you do it, rather than diving straight in. You don’t want to get knee-deep into something, and then you realize, "Oh, wait, wait, wait. I could have made this whole thing a lot more simple for myself." Having that producer mindset makes a huge difference. Another thing, realizing that you do have a motion community available to you. There's a tutorial on everything; GreyScaleGorilla, School of Motion, YouTube. There are a million resources that you can use. Being smart about knowing all these resources available to you early on, makes a big difference.

Mack Garrison:

That's fantastic. You're still bringing value to the table, even if it isn't with you; by your network and people you know. To your point, studios want to work with proactive people. Talking about just how small the industry is, and how important reputation is, it's crazy to me how everyone is connected to someone you know. Everyone is going to know someone. So to your point, work hard on every project, put in your best effort, don't ever throw in the towel on something just because you're not feeling it, because it gets around.

Bhakti Patel:

Definitely, and everyone hits a project or two where their reputation takes a little bit of a hit because either something personal came up or they made a stupid mistake. I know early on I got burnt out and I didn't give a project 100%. At that point, first, know that everybody messes up to some degree. Second, make sure you do something to make it right because it could stick with you. It could be a problem in the future. I learned early on that reputation sticks.

Mack Garrison:

One thing Meryn and I have been talking about is how male-oriented the industry is. It's refreshing to see this resurgence of more prominent female artists, designers, and animators that are pushing their way up to the echelons; to very elite levels, breaking through what traditionally had this glass ceiling. Have you run into any diversity in your career path when trying to grow? Any recommendations for other women and minorities in the industry? What can they do to position themselves in the best way possible as they move into the world?

“don't be cocky that you already know it, but be confident in your skillset and what you can learn.”

Bhakti Patel:

I did this talk on hiring for diversity, it's more so just talking about where you could take it, and what the benefit is of hiring for diversity. Have you guys noticed that everybody's telling the same stories, and all the work is becoming similar?

Everybody follows the same artists. They keep copying the same words; telling the same stories over and over again. The way to fix that is by hiring for diversity. If you have artists, designers, and creators on your team who think differently - they were raised differently, they grew up with a different culture, they have a female perspective instead of a male perspective - it can completely change how you do business. It can change how you create work, the kind of work you create, and could ultimately end up being better for you and the company in the long run. I don't think people realize that diversity is an asset. It's more than just a check box, you know?

Mack Garrison:

Right!

Bhakti Patel:

When you hire somebody and consider their diverse background, you're considering that they can tell stories in a very different way, and that's what we are at the end of the day. Storytellers.

“you don't ever want to be confident in your ability to know everything, but your ability to learn...one is ego and one is a student mindset.”

Mack Garrison:

It's a great conversation to have. I feel very lucky that, at dash, we're still in such a small studio. There's a lot of input from our entire staff. It's not just the executives or the leadership team making decisions on who to hire, it's everyone involved talking through it while being transparent. But you start thinking of bigger studios and agencies, all of a sudden, it's still a very select few that end up making the decisions about who to hire and why they're hiring. Would you give any advice, if there was a hiring director out there, reading this or listening to this? What are some things that people should be doing to be more proactive about diversity so it is not just a checkbox? How can they be proactive when bringing in that other side of design?

Bhakti Patel:

First is understanding what I just mentioned. Why is it important to hire with diversity in mind? The second is proactively reaching out to groups. There is Panimation, which is full of women of diverse backgrounds as well. There's a Facebook group, but they also have a website with a lot of different portfolios. Talk to your existing employees. Ask, "Hey, we would like to bring in more diverse thought into this company, do you have recommendations?" It's not necessarily about giving preference to female artists over male artists or anything of that sort, but leveling the playing field. There are so many extra steps that we have to take to just get a seat at the table, so it's making sure that we at least have a chance to get our foot in the door. That's what hiring for diversity looks like.

Mack Garrison:

That's great, Bhakti. And that's the proactive nature of what you were alluding to as well. Companies have to be active. They can't be passive when it comes to that.

Bhakti Patel:

Also, it’s easy for there to be a bit of a bros club, at certain places. The people that you get along with the most are those you tend to recommend and hire. So if hiring managers get along with a lot of different male artists or male designers, they're more likely to only recommend men. They have something in common with them. Because of that, the entire culture of the motion design industry has become a bit of a bro's club. Instead of saying "Oh, will they fit into our culture," i.e. bro's club, we need more of, "Does our culture need to change, and will this person help round it out?" That's something that doesn't always get asked.

Meryn Hayes:

Yeah, this is a hard question to pose. It’s not just for you to figure out, but what are some practical ways that studios and freelancers - male or female - can take to chip away at that bro culture? As Mack mentioned, it's something that we're aware of. We want to make sure that we’re looking for a diverse group of people when we are hiring and not just, "Oh, we know so and so who might be someone that we know," it might be another white male. What do you think about how we as an industry can start to reshape that culture?

Bhakti Patel:

A lot of women tend to only get hired for junior positions. Then somehow, they disappear when it gets to the director level. They all get stopped somewhere. I know so many more female designers and artists that get to an intern level, and then that’s it for them. But a lot of their male counterparts end up leveling up. Even just thinking about proactively being invested in their careers makes a huge difference. Talk to them about how they can progress to an animator, art director, or creative director. Make sure that there aren't just women in the lower part of your company, but also in the more executive positions as well. That makes a huge difference. Especially if they can see that they can get to a creative director level. The company values; that thought and that leadership, make a huge difference. Making sure that there's some sort of opportunity or possibility for a mentorship.

Meryn Hayes:

Mentorship is huge. You don't know what's attainable in your career until you see someone else doing it. Being paired with one or trying to find someone that would be in a role that you would want, trying to learn from them and feed off of what they've done, that's so important. Our community is so welcoming and inviting, I know so many people who would be happy to reach out, give advice, and share their experiences just to help set the groundwork for other people; other minorities, or for women.

Mack Garrison:

It's systematic too. If you have these bro cultures, you foster this industry that's filled with white males. Then, all the bonds that form and mentorships created are catered for white men. The folks that get left behind are the women or minorities who are trying to move up to those leadership positions. They don't have the same opportunities that their peers do, and that’s another unfortunate layer of separation in the industry. It goes back to what you talked about earlier, Bhakti, about reaching out and being more proactive in trying to foster some connection with folks in the industry. Maybe even starting earlier on, and connecting with leadership positions who resemble where you want to be and what you want to do so you can have those mentorships.

Bhakti Patel:

For sure. Having more women involved helps change that culture as well. There's a company that I was at, it was all white men. They would always talk about sports, and I just didn't know enough about that, so I could never have any conversation with them that wasn’t design-related. It made it almost impossible, being the only person coming from a different background. So, there was nothing that I could bring to the conversation in any way. During lunch, they only talked about these two or three things, it was impossible to break into it.

“everyone is going to know someone…work hard on every project, put in your best effort, don't ever throw in the towel on something just because you're not feeling it because it gets around.”

Mack Garrison:

Absolutely, and was that a freelance position or full-time position that you were doing there? Did you stick around a long time or a short time because of it?

Bhakti Patel:

It was freelance. I didn't choose to stick around because of that reason. I left because I got a better opportunity somewhere else that paid more, along with other things. They also negotiated my rate down, I wish I stuck with my guns on that one, but I didn't. I was just two years out of school so I compromised, but I feel they never negotiated down for anybody else. They pushed and pushed down, and then added two more hours into the day as well.

Mack Garrison:

Wow, yeah. That's pretty negative. On a positive note, with the Me Too movement and other recent events, I see a progression. People are more cognizant of it than they have been over the last 10 years. I think back to when I first got into the industry, even compared to where we are now, it feels like we're making steps forward. I would be concerned if it was still the status quo. So, in the light of looking forward and thinking about where this industry is heading, where do you see motion design going?

Bhakti Patel:

There is a lot of potential in how bigger companies are approaching motion design in a branding form; thinking about motion design systems. Google has one, IBM has one, Facebook has developed one as well. There's a lot of potential with systemic thinking when designing for motion, and that's a huge conversation with so much potential. But, I don't know where all the motion designers are on this one, so we need you.

The second thing is regarding the AR and VR realms, mixed reality as well. There's potential there. The problem that you run into right now is more so that you have 3D artists with a lot of skill, but not enough design chops. Sometimes you'll have a lot of graphic designers or artists who have these amazing ideas and can design them well, but they don't have the skills to bring them into reality. Motion designers stand in the middle because they can do both. They have the design skills and the motion skills. They can bring these from 3D into AR and VR, so they have this unique opportunity that I don't know if everyone realizes that they can push into this realm. And, there's a lot of money to be made there.

Bhakti Patel:

In terms of advertising, it's interesting. I haven't done too much lately, but I think the projects have dried up a bit. It’s not because motion design is getting smaller by any means. If anything, it's expanding. Expanding beyond the 55 inch TV. If you think about it, AR/VR advertising happens a lot. When it comes to global brand experience as well. That's something that I noticed that Pepsi has done a lot of. They're more focused on building an entire experience around their brand, so instead of doing an ad during the Super Bowl, they'll have the entire Super Bowl Halftime Show to put their logo all over, in motion. Things like that are huge, and I think it's just breaking away from what we understand motion design to be, its application, and thinking about where else it could be applied.

Mack Garrison:

That's great. It's one of the things that is so nice about our industry. You talked about the background and how people get into motion design. You can have a graphic designer with motion skills that come into play. You could have a more traditional animator. Someone who knows code can come into it. You have this melting pot of different characters, personality traits, and skillsets. That creates a lot of opportunities. There are so many different avenues that people can place themselves in, which is really inspiring and very optimistic for folks who are in this industry.

One thing that I was interested in was your comment on systems. You talked about where the future's heading. Animation motion graphics is a great conduit for organizing information and distilling complex materials into something easily digestible. So, I think the systems side of it is really interesting. I was curious if you could talk about your thoughts towards the systems or when you say system design and what that means when it comes to motion.

Bhakti Patel:

When we talk about branding, we talk about logo design, we talk about color palettes, and things like that. How a brand moves is something that people don't fully get into, but it's just as important as what colors you choose. For instance, Google gets away with doing these very bouncy movements, and that's because their brand allows for it. It's more playful in that way. But when you talk about something that's more business-oriented, something that's a little bit more serious as a brand, how does that move differently than how Google might move? These are things that are more interesting to think about, and they’re more like problem-solving, brand directives kind of thinking. There's a lot of potential in that realm. Companies are starting to realize that the way they apply motion to aspects of their brand makes as much of a difference as what colors they use, what types they use, what layouts they use.

This is a huge area that we can get into. And the thing is, this is the one area I haven't seen outdated tutorials on. But in terms of an actual full brand, talking everything from advertising, all the way down to button clicks, that's the entire system. So thinking about how people see it on TV, all the way down to how they experience it.

Mack Garrison:

Especially if that ecosystem evolves and becomes more complex, has more deliverables. There are all these different channels, you have to think about that, right? How are people going to be interacting with your brand as motion becomes more popular, as far as the content that people digest? You need to think about, to your point, UX, button clicks, how is the interactive experience going to affect their brand? How is the video someone watches, Instagram fascinating?

Well, awesome! Bhakti, this was great. I know you've got to run so I'll let you go, but thank you so much for chatting with Meryn and I. I think this was incredibly informative.

Bhakti Patel:

Sounds great. All right, have a good one, guys.

Mack Garrison:

Thanks, Bhakti, talk to you soon.

Meryn Hayes:

Thanks, stay safe.

Guest User 6/8/21 Guest User 6/8/21

Takeover Tuesday with Jordan McBarnett

Q&A with Jordan McBarnett: a Trini-American sophomore at Ringling College of Art and Design currently studying Motion Design.

Q&A with Jordan McBarnett
Read time: 5min

“Calvin Harris Poster” | Jordan McBarnett

Madison Caprara:

Hey, Jordan!

Why don’t you give us a little introduction to yourself and your work? How did you initially get into Motion Design?

Jordan McBarnett:

Yo, what’s up Dash? Thank you for having me be a part of this, I am super honored! Well, my name is Jordan and I am a rising junior studying Motion Design and minoring in Business of Art and Design. I love to challenge myself with learning new things and push myself to become the best designer and creative I can be.

I was a LEGO fanatic who was into design and photography in middle and high school. I created LEGO Stop Motion Animation Videos (aka Brickfilms) on my YouTube Channel since I was 13 years old. I actually discovered Motion Design through Joash Berkeley, who is now the Creative Director of Eido and one of my inspirations. My father and I reached out to him so that we could learn more about the medium when I was in high school. After talking to Joash, I was hooked and knew I wanted to get into the Motion Design industry. Thank you, Joash for everything!

Madison Caprara:

I see that you go to Ringling! Taking into account the ever-present debate of pursuing a formal education, how has your experience been?

Jordan McBarnett:

Oh trust me, I have debated myself going to an art school ever since high school. Studying at Ringling College has been pretty amazing and inspiring. The teachers here are all very dedicated to our improvement and success. My peers and Motion buds are so uplifting and talented as well. I believe that if I didn’t go to Ringling, I wouldn’t have known half as much as I know now about animation, design, professionalism, or even composition and storytelling; everything at Ringling is very useful. Because of simply attending Ringling, I have had a much better opportunity to communicate with outside professionals and successful alumni in the industry due to the “name” that Ringling has!

I truly believe that to be successful at any medium, you do not NEED to pursue a formal education. However, it is fantastic for connecting to people in the industry. You just have to take the initiative to make those connections become a reality.

Madison Caprara:

100% agree, sometimes interpersonal skills are more difficult to learn than technical skills.

Pivoting off of that, is there anything you feel that you have experienced or learned so far that you wouldn’t have been able to gain from anywhere other than Ringling, or a university in general?

Jordan McBarnett:

Hell ya!

Again, the connections were a huge part of Ringling I have experienced while attending the college. Also, I have definitely learned more about storytelling and pacing to properly communicate your idea! There’s this one class called Concept that has been super helpful that isn’t found at any other college except for Ringling. It has been very effective in turning my ideas into coherent designs and animations.

Madison Caprara:

The world has pretty much been flipped upside down with this pandemic. Out of all the communities that I feel have been impacted the most, students are definitely up there.

For me, consistency is key. What’s your daily routine looking like these days? In which part of the day do you feel most productive?

Jordan McBarnett:

I normally start off waking up at 8 AM and fix myself a light breakfast before my morning workout, usually followed by reading 10 pages of my book. After eating a high protein, whole grain lunch, I either work on freelance opportunities or my part-time job, depending on the day of the week. At night, I spend time with my family till about 8 PM and do more of my personal work till midnight. I find that I am most productive in the evenings and at night.

Madison Caprara:

Nice! I love hearing about other people’s productivity schedules. It’s always interesting to see how different our brains thrive.

Moving on, Is there a singular type of design or style you see yourself gravitating to most? If yes, why?

Jordan McBarnett:

I gravitate more towards 3D Design and Animation as of right now. I just love the ease of using Cinema 4D and the complexity of Redshift. I’m finding supplies to build my computer to optimize my ability to create more beautiful designs and animations in Cinema 4D.

Madison Caprara:

Aside from creating them for enjoyment, what are some benefits you feel you gain from personal projects outside of your client work?

Jordan McBarnett:

Although personal projects are super fun within themselves, doing a personal project helps me learn more about a certain program in general, and helps me develop and finesse my style overall!

Madison Caprara:

What has been one of your favorites?

Jordan McBarnett:

I normally don’t have a project that I gravitate towards. But to give you an answer, the project that I had the most fun with was my Mango piece. If you were to ask me what was the meaning behind this animation, I wouldn’t know the answer! I just wanted to create a piece that made me smile.

Madison Caprara:

What are some hobbies outside of design that you do to decompress?

Jordan McBarnett:

I am a gym addict and love to work out at least five times a week! I also love to eat healthily and take care of my mental health by meditating and reading inspiring books. Particularly ones where I can learn about finance, business, mental health, or human nature. On the weekends, I mess around with my guitar and spend time at the movies.

Madison Caprara:

Where do you go for inspiration?

Jordan McBarnett:
Inspiration can be found anywhere, even right under your nose. I try to not overthink my ideas and go with the one on top of my head. If I am in a mental rut, I’ll usually go on a run outside or meditate to calm my nerves.

Madison Caprara:

Wrapping up, do you have any closing advice, points, or statements you would like to share?

Jordan McBarnett:

Yes! I believe that you should always get out of your comfort zone and try new things, mentally and physically, even if it seems very scary or uncertain at first. A life full of comfort is no way to live and can get very unfulfilling and boring; you only have so much time to spend, never waste a second away. Finally, never limit yourself and your views; when you grow and improve as a person, your work, ambitions, and relationships in life will also drastically improve.

Guest User 5/25/21 Guest User 5/25/21

Takeover Tuesday with Victoria Blair

Q&A with Victoria Blair: a motion designer & illustrator based in D.C.

Q&A with Victoria Blair
Read time: 10min

Madison Caprara:

What’s up, Victoria?

Could you give us a little intro to yourself and your work? Some background if you will?

Victoria Blair:

Hey, I’m Victoria!

I’m a freelance motion designer & illustrator currently living in Washington D.C. I’m originally from Pennsylvania (the Philly/Wawa side) and I’ve been a doodler since my early days in diapers. Lately, I’ve been experimenting with a lot of collage-style motion work, as well as experimenting with lighting in my illustrations.

Madison Caprara:

Nice!

Building off of that, how did you get into motion design and illustration? When did you know that this was something you wanted to pursue? Did you have any support in your decision?

“lately, I’ve found my best art comes from allowing myself to just create what I want, and how I want it while ignoring all the rules and trending styles.”

Victoria Blair:

I’m really lucky that my parents have always supported my creative side. I studied film production in college, and during my time I loved learning about cinematography, directing, and editing, but I struggled to find that motivating spark with anything production-related. Towards the end of my senior year, I saw a few computer science majors working on a kinetic type project in After Effects for one of their classes, and I thought that was the COOLEST thing. I think that very night I downloaded the program and started to play around with it while sorting through every tutorial on YouTube.

After graduation, I worked a few odd jobs in arts marketing & editing. I told my managers at the time that I was interested in learning motion design, and they encouraged me to incorporate it into the work that I did. Those projects were very simple, but looking back I appreciate how supportive my teammates were. I eventually discovered School of Motion, and after taking Animation Bootcamp, was able to land my first gig in the industry. I’ve been working ever since!

Madison Caprara:

So, I’ve noticed that some of your most recent pieces are collage works. Your reel looks amazing, by the way! What’s been one of the most challenging styles for you to get into or learn?

Frames of Fear 2020, Unkempt Beast - By Victoria Blair

Victoria Blair:

Thank you so much!

I feel as though I’m still in this exploratory phase of my career. I know what I love to do and what I want to learn (which lately seems like everything). But I don’t have a ton of experience in a variety of styles. One of the first real projects I ever worked on was a collage-style animation, and I think that helped me get hired for projects requiring that particular style. I’d love to learn more traditional frame-by-frame animation, as well as character work.

Madison Caprara:

What about one of your favorite styles?

Victoria Blair:

I love those styles that are a hybrid of 2D & 3D, to the point where I have no idea how it was accomplished but I desperately want to dissect it and try to create something similar. I love the look of 2D illustrations, so when that gets placed in an environment that plays on perspective giving it a 3D feel, I think that looks incredible!

Madison Caprara:

So, in your opinion, what are - if any - some visual trends right now to focus on?

“be proud of the work you do! not every project will be a masterpiece, but you’re always learning and will continue to improve, and that is a beautiful thing to experience.”

Victoria Blair:

Hard to say!

I feel as though there are a lot of visual styles I see frequently. I’m drawn to the weird and outrageous, where the characters are odd and almost ugly looking, but in a really beautiful way, you know? At the same time, I also admire the pieces that can accomplish the story with simple abstract visuals and geometric shapes.

Madison Caprara:

I tend to gravitate more towards the “weird” and abstract pieces too!

How do you personally stay relevant in this industry when there are so many talented creatives?

Victoria Blair:

Lately, I’ve found my best art comes from allowing myself to just create what I want, and how I want it while ignoring all the rules and trending styles. I feel really lucky to be a creative, but it can be a funny thing when you make that your career. Most of my professional work tends to fit a standard or commercial style, and sometimes I let that creep into my personal work.

My brain sometimes thinks my personal work isn’t good because it doesn’t fit a trending style, or isn’t presented in a way to fit a fancy algorithm. As a kid, I was always creating something without a care for other people’s opinions, so I try to maintain that kind of attitude and enjoy each piece I create.

Madison Caprara:

That imposter syndrome. It’s a b. We’ve spoken about it a lot recently. It seems like everyone battles with it in some aspect.

Being a woman in this industry, you’re a bit of a minority, have there been any particularly hard hurdles to overcome?

Victoria Blair:

Definitely. There were some difficult moments in college, especially in my major where I was one of only three women in my class. At the time I was just a quiet kid with no clear direction of where I wanted to go, so I struggled to speak up and advocate for myself and my skills. There was always someone with a louder voice or a bigger ego in the room, so I just kept my ideas to myself and helped everyone else out as best as I could. Even though that approach gave me a lot of experience, I left college without a real project that I was proud of and could call my own.

Breaking into the industry wasn’t super smooth either. I like to think I’m a very easy-going person, so when I was hired on a long term contract with a boss that turned out to be extremely sexist, condescending, and ultimately cultivating a toxic work environment, I had no idea how to handle it and failed to stand up for myself. I left that contract early for a multitude of reasons, but the biggest takeaway from that was learning the importance of self-worth and the power of confidence.

Madison Caprara:

Self-confidence is game-changing, but EXTREMELY hard to put into practice. I’m a big fan of the fake it ‘til you make it mindset.

Do you have any advice for young women just beginning their own journeys?

Victoria Blair:

Talk to others, experiment and fail, and enjoy the ride! It can be really really really difficult when you are just starting out. Know that you aren’t alone and that teammates, managers, or other animators in the industry you admire are incredibly helpful and important in developing your career. Ask them questions, share your struggles, and chat through your goals. In school, it was drilled into my brain that success in the industry is “all about who you know.” Strong professional relationships will pave the way for opportunities in the future.

Madison Caprara:

Who is your absolute FAVORITE artist or work?

Victoria Blair:
Impossible to pick just one because I have so many favorites! For illustration, I’ll always have a soft spot for Edward Gorey’s work. His illustrations inspired me to continue drawing in college during my free time (and during lectures…). I love his creatures and characters, specifically the ones from The Gashlycrumb Tinies.

School of Motion Holiday Card - Victoria Blair

Madison Caprara:

So pivoting from there, where do you go for inspiration?

Victoria Blair:

Everywhere! Cinematography in films, artwork in museums, old crumbling architecture, weird creatures in nature, and especially music with how lyrics and instrumentals paint their own visuals in my mind. When I hit a creative block, I know that’s when I need to leave my computer and go to my sources of inspiration to find that next idea.

Madison Caprara:

Nice! So we’re reaching the end. Do you have any closing advice or statements you would like to share?

Victoria Blair:
Something I’ve been trying to preach to myself lately is to be mindful in the moment, admire the progress I’m making, and all the people that have shaped me into being who I am now. It’s so easy to dismiss and doubt your work when you only compare it with what you see on social media. Be proud of the work you do! Not every project will be a masterpiece, but you’re always learning and will continue to improve, and that is a beautiful thing to experience.

Madison Caprara:

Great speaking to you, Victoria!

We’ll catch up again this Friday on our Mograph Lunch podcast!

Guest User 5/11/21 Guest User 5/11/21

Takeover Tuesday with Sofie Lee

Q&A with Sofie Lee: a freelance Motion Designer and Illustrator.

Q&A with Sofie Lee
Read time: 10min

Madison Caprara:

Hey Sofie!

How did you get into the career of motion design and illustration?

Sofie Lee:

I studied motion design at SCAD where I learned both animation in After Effects and 2D vector design. Drawing wasn’t a thing for me and I wasn’t much interested at that time. As I started my career in the industry, however, I saw a variety of design and illustration styles that were incorporated within animation. It was such a mind-blowing experience. They were so fascinating. Being able to share my ideas within drawings is a magical skill when beginning rough concepts, you know? That’s when I started to teach myself drawing and illustration.

Madison Caprara:

So, have you ever worked with a studio/agency, or have you always worked freelance? Do you see any pros and cons for both?

Sofie Lee:

During my senior year at SCAD, I had an opportunity to intern at a design and animation studio, which then luckily transitioned into a staff position. I embarked on my freelance journey last year to be on a new adventure.

But yes, definitely. In my personal experience, I’d say the pros of being in a staff position are that: 1.) It gives a safety cushion in terms of financial security, especially when you are fresh out of college. 2.) You have access to resources provided by the studio and get to learn a lot from other artists as well as the production pipeline. And 3.) You have fewer responsibilities on your shoulders because there will be an art director and creative director to back you up if you make a mistake or have to take time off due to any health issues.

The cons of being in a staff position: 1.) I personally felt constrained. Animation requires great teamwork and the majority of the job is client/commercial work where things need to be executed quickly, but beautifully, within the timeline. So, people were hired for a specific skill whereas I was interested in a lot of different things and wanted to grow at my own pace while making trials and errors. 2.) Having a limited income; income is often limited to the agreed salary unless you get a bonus or are promoted. Sometimes as an international employee, you are responsible for those extra attorney fees which are taken out of your salary.

Sofie Lee:

On the flip side, you have freelance work. Some pros are: First and foremost, you are your own boss which is the most exciting thing if you think about it. Because you are a producer of yourself as well, you can plan out your own schedule and grow at your own pace. Secondly, you get to learn the business side of production, which helps a lot to be aware of why smart decisions are important; how to get things done within the time limit with great work, etc. These new perspectives in business have been helping my workflow as well. And lastly, there is less distraction. When working at a studio with people around you, sometimes a random call pops up or your co-worker asks you to get a coffee (I miss this part) but you don’t have much of these since you are working alone. I’m realizing that I tend to focus better and get things done quicker working alone.

Cons of being freelance: You have to manage EVERYTHING and be responsible for them. Secondly, you can feel isolated and disconnected from people because you are working alone. And lastly, your daily routine can easily crumble if you don’t stick with it or remind yourself every day.

School of Motion: Jofie Collaboration - Design by Sofie Lee. Animation by Jon Riedell. Sound Design by Sean Smith.

Madison Caprara:

I feel like you’re either in the ‘love it’ or ‘hate it’ camp when it comes to remote work. There’s no grey area. I personally am a big fan.

Moving on, what has been your most interesting experience to date?

Sofie Lee:

I’d say attending the 2019 Blend Festival in Vancouver. I met a lot of great artists that I had been following. We talked about work, things we were inspired by, and just got to know each other in person. It felt dreamy.

Madison Caprara:

Nice! I haven’t gotten to experience one of these festivals yet, it’s why I’m doubly excited for dash bash this fall!

What is your favorite subject matter to draw inspiration from or pay homage to?

Sofie Lee:

Human anatomy and weird geometric forms and objects that draw on a certain mood. I also love abstract things (both organic and geometric) because they can be interpreted in many different ways. There isn’t a certain answer to be understood.

Madison Caprara:

How often do you allow your personal experiences to play a role in your works? Is there a specific piece you can think of for reference?

Sofie Lee:

I like to allow my personal experiences to play a role as much as possible because creating art based on my own experiences is such a therapeutic process to me. However, I also love collaborating with other creatives where the work doesn’t necessarily need my personal experience. It’s sometimes even better to remove myself and treat it as a creative solution. In the evenings, I work on my personal projects and that’s where I revisit my journals which are full of my own stories, feelings, and experiences. It’s almost like I’m hanging out with my past self and paying attention to my inner voice. I think one of the references I can use is probably my film I directed and designed called, Dream, where you can listen to my story and meet me through the work.

Madison Caprara:

I’m not sure if you’ve ever taken on a project that goes against your personal beliefs. How responsible do you feel creatives need to be when it comes to the overall message communicated with their work?

Sofie Lee:

I feel like this is a very subjective question and needs to be considered in a lot of different ways in order for it to be answered. Unfortunately, I don’t think I have a definite answer. I wouldn’t take on a project that’s crazy out of my scope of beliefs, and I’d also feel responsible for every type of project I agreed to work on regardless of my belief system because it’s about professionalism. Any work we create, whether it’s professional or personal, always communicates some sort of message which can be interpreted subjectively.

So my questions are: Should we as creatives feel responsible for every work we’ve created? Does every project we work on determine who we are? Are there any set rules and regulations to go about evaluating? What if you have other responsibilities that are bigger than pursuing your social responsibility as a creative? I definitely think it takes a crucial role to be aware of the power of creatives to influence the world, yet I’m genuinely curious to hear what others’ thoughts might be in regards to this.

Madison Caprara:

It is such a complex, weighted question. I’d be really interested to hear feedback from others as well.

For your personal projects, where do you go for inspiration?

Jesper Ryom Music Video; Nights - Designed by Sofie Lee. Directed and Animated by Mathijs Luijten. Sound Design by Jesper Ryom. Hosted by Delicieuse Records.

Sofie Lee:

I love going to art museums, watching movies, or going on a trip with my camera. On the internet, I check Motionographer pretty often as well as Wine after Coffee on Vimeo. Reading editorial magazines is also one of my go-to’s when it comes to finding some inspiration. Oh, and I can’t forget to say The Metropolitan Museum of Art website is full of amazingness.

Madison Caprara:

What is a skill that you believe is universally beneficial for all of the folks within the industry to perfect?

Sofie Lee:

I believe it is your communication skill; being able to articulate one’s thoughts and ideas is so important. I can’t stress enough to emphasize that. Surprisingly, it often gets underestimated. We all come from different backgrounds and people are now working remotely from all over the world. That being said, we should never assume the way we communicate individually is the right way, as there isn’t such a thing. Try to be a good listener. I also believe this would encourage the creation of an environment where anyone can speak their minds when it comes to collaborative work.

Madison Caprara:
Surprisingly - or not - you are not the first I’ve spoken with within the industry that stressed the importance of good communication skills.

Are there any particularly big challenges right now that you’re trying to overcome?

Sofie Lee:

As I’m now running my own business, the first big challenge at the moment is time management. I used to be pretty impulsive and would do things that I just felt like doing. I also have a puppy to take care of now, so my time is limited. Therefore, I’ve been making a schedule first in the morning based on my priorities and try to stick with it.

The second biggest challenge is keeping myself healthy. I was pretty swamped last year in both my personal and professional lives as I began working as a freelancer. I’ve been trying to exercise even just for five minutes a day. It’s tough because I’m not a big fan of moving my body and feeling sore. However, I love so much of what I do and want to keep pursuing this creative career.

Lastly, is to sustain peace of mind and toughening up my inner strength. Freelancing can be a rollercoaster. I didn’t believe it when people said it, but it is true. A precise schedule is needed but it doesn’t mean it always works that way. So I often try to remind myself that today won’t come again once it’s passed, don’t be shaken by temporary circumstances and feelings, cherish every moment I live in.

Madison Caprara:

That’s a great mindset to have.

Do you have any closing points you would like to share?

Sofie Lee:

I recently watched a documentary on Henri Matisse because I was really inspired by one of his works (I mean I always do but this particular one pulled extra interest) that said, “art should be something like a good armchair in which to rest from physical fatigue.” Working for someone is great but this quote reminds me of giving myself some time to be immersed in my own art and feel at peace and relax as we all deserve that.

Dream - Directed and designed by Sofie Lee. Animation by Omid Seraj. Sound Design by The Chicken and Sono Sanctus.

Guest User 4/13/21 Guest User 4/13/21

Takeover Tuesday with Zoë Soriano

Q&A with Zoë Soriano: a freelance Motion Designer + Animator currently living in Washington, DC.

Q&A with Zoë Soriano
Read time: 10min

“I put my dreams on the back burner for a while…”

Madison Caprara:

So, what originally led you to pursue a career in motion design and animation?

Zoë Soriano:

Growing up, I absolutely loved animated movies. One of my favorites was Over the Hedge. On a particularly long road trip when I was maybe eight or nine years old, I decided to watch the behind-the-scenes recap on how the movie was made. It was at that point that I realized that making animations was an actual job that people could have. Over the years, it was instilled in me that my career path should be “realistic,” meaning maths or sciences, so when it came time to pick coursework in high school, I decided to go heavy on math and took essentially all AP STEM classes while avoiding art classes like the plague.

I put my dreams on the back burner for a while and even did two years in college of math coursework before I decided to take an art class for credit my sophomore year. In that art class, I fell in love with creating and drawing; things I imagined being manifested on paper. At that point, I knew that art/animation was something I didn’t want to compromise on anymore, so I transferred to an art school and really began learning animation!

Madison Caprara:

Was there ever a point where you doubted that career path?

Zoë Soriano:

Absolutely. There were two major moments that I felt huge amounts of doubt. The first was when I first transferred to MICA — I was surrounded by so many talented folks that I was really overwhelmed. Having only taken one art class prior, I felt behind in comparison to my peers. A majority of them had been drawing since they were young, they’d been honing their skills for way longer than I had. I felt at that moment that I made a huge mistake. That I would never catch up to them.

The second major moment was after I held a couple of jobs in motion graphics, I had been working as a motion designer for about a year professionally. All the while, I felt very dissatisfied and unfulfilled. Art school really sets you up to work on projects from start to finish, to have ownership of the projects you do. I felt like I was a “pixel pusher,” just churning out keyframes like a machine. During this time, I felt I had two real choices: 1.) Go freelance and see if having more control made me feel better, or 2.) Change careers to a job that I lacked a passion for, but would ultimately pay the bills so that I could work on passion projects on the side. It was a really tough decision but I ultimately decided to go freelance and I’m so happy I did.

Madison Caprara:

Is there any specific experience you can recall that has directly contributed to your established style or process?

Zoë Soriano:

I think as a whole, going to art school and being surrounded by so many different types of art was really formative to me. I’ve always been drawn to the motion design and animations that incorporate layering mixed-media textures, 3D elements, and 2D cel animations. I attribute it to being able to experiment with all of those mediums at MICA.

Another HUGE thing for me was working at Franc - my first job out of college. On my first day back in 2018, they asked me to create a “Welcome, Zoë” animation. I made some designs, they looked at them and really critiqued my color palette. At first, I was a bit shocked because I really liked the palette I chose, but they challenged me to pick only three or four colors and experiment with those shades. Ever since then, I’ve formed most of my color palettes around three main colors. Now, I even consider myself “strong” at colors.

*“Nike: Self-Care Saturday” by Zoë Soriano.*

Madison Caprara:

What has been your absolute favorite project? Tell us a bit about the creative process and subsequent reception by either the client or your personal following.

Zoë Soriano:

Ooo, this is tough because every project is my favorite as soon as I finish it! But I would say my all-time favorite project would be the first freelance piece I did when I went full-time. It was with the Miami Freedom Project - two sisters. The budget was tight, and so was the timeline, but I really put my heart and soul into it. It was the first time that someone asked me to do a project from start to finish; doing the art direction, character, designs, animation, even the sound design.

The project was about getting Latine folks in Miami to vote. MFP wanted to create this story about an Abuela and her grandson. They had a rough idea of what they wanted. The Abuela and Grandson would be going about their day and ultimately at the end, they go and vote together - socially distanced, of course (this was for the November 2020 election).

Zoë Soriano:
They sent me a bunch of photos to help shape this world — photos of their own Abuelas and trinkets to put in the scenes. Using the photos as a reference point, I created a bright and colorful palette around the vibrancy of Latine and Miami culture. Due to the quick time restraints, I opted to do more of a limited animation style and focused on creating textured and vibrant illustrations for the piece.

I look back at what I made a year ago, and while I know it’s not perfect - I can still see imperfections - I look at it quite fondly because it was something I really committed myself fully to. I really wanted to bring these characters to life and tell their story as best as I could. Miami Freedom Project absolutely loved the finished product. They actually told me that it made them really emotional (in a good way!) to see a character design based on their Abuela. Being able to evoke such strong, positive emotions is always a rewarding feeling because as an artist, all I want when someone looks at my work is to feel something.

“being able to evoke such strong, positive emotions is always a rewarding feeling because as an artist, all I want when someone looks at my work is to feel something.”

Madison Caprara:

What do you believe is the key ingredient for a consistent, successful final project?

Zoë Soriano:

Organization and clear communication are the salt and pepper for consistently successful projects! I’ve always been a fairly organized person, but once I went freelance and was in charge of a lot of my own project management, it was really important for me to make sure I had correct deadlines and that I could find all the files I needed.

Madison Caprara:

I see that you have a deep passion for activism, particularly regarding social and environmental issues. How have your personal beliefs affected projects you take on or clients you work with?

Zoë Soriano:

As an activist, it’s super important to me to put work out into the world that I feel makes a difference. When I first started off with freelance, I was very fortunate that my first project was with the Wall Street Journal for their Future of Transportation project. It opened the door for me to then work with GRTMA, the Greater Redmond Transit Management Association, where I worked on an informative project about how GRTMA was fighting for new bike lanes to be built. As someone who is passionate about environmental issues, I was really excited to take this on as I’m a huge supporter of alternative modes of transportation. When I’m really excited about a project, I really put my heart and soul into the designs.

Madison Caprara:

In the freelance game, there can be extended periods of downtime. What do you recommend doing to keep your skills sharp during these times?

Zoë Soriano:

Always learning! I’m currently in a busy period, but in December, I had a few weeks of lull and I spent the time researching new plug-ins and testing them out. It’s super important to do work for yourself during these times.

Also, it helps to maintain your routine, at least for two to three days of the week during lull periods. Replace working on client projects with learning a tutorial or doing a personal project. Non-work-related hobbies are something I really enjoy indulging in during my downtime; learning a new language or reading a good book are ways I keep my mind sharp and help me keep creative energy without actually making.

Madison Caprara:

How has the pandemic affected your access to work?

Zoë Soriano:

I went freelance during the pandemic, so far, the flow of work has been fairly steady! In 2019, I did try to do the freelance thing, but I didn’t get past 2 months before panicking that no work was coming in and decided to go back to full-time work. The pandemic has been extremely helpful for me in getting work because a lot of companies are now open to remote work, and are willing to work with folks from other states, so it’s been nice in the way that I’m not limited to my city.

“non-work-related hobbies are something I really enjoy indulging in during my downtime; learning a new language or reading a good book are ways I keep my mind sharp and help me keep creative energy without actually making.”

Madison Caprara:

Where do you go for inspiration?

Zoë Soriano:
Instagram, Behance, and Dribbble are my main sources of direct design/motion inspiration, but I also find a lot of inspiration in everyday life and other forms of art. Whenever I’m working on a personal project, I draw a lot of inspiration from my personal life which is why a lot of the stuff I do tends to be character-based. I also collect “Art of _____” books - I have all the Disney and Pixar books, and am beginning my collection of Studio Ghibli books. The concept art in these books is quite incredible and the color palettes inspire me greatly.

Madison Caprara:

Favorite and least favorite aspect of this industry?

Zoë Soriano:

Favorite: Community - being able to talk with folks about their experiences and their willingness to share.

Least favorite: The hold system and how male-dominated the industry is.

Madison Caprara:
Do you have any closing advice, points, or statements you would like to share?

Zoë Soriano:

Remember to take time outside of work to cultivate your hobbies and relationships! Having breaks from work is essential for your mental health.

Guest User 4/10/21 Guest User 4/10/21

Q&A with Dotti and Sammy of Golden Wolf

We chatted with Dotti Sinnott and Sammy Moore of Golden Wolf: an Emmy-nominated animation studio founded in 2013 with offices in both London and New York.

Q&A with Dotti Sinnott and Sammy Moore
Read time: 15min

[SPEAKER]:

This call is being recorded.

Dotti Sinnot:

Oh.

Mack Garrison:

We’re super fancy.

Mack Garrison:

Haha. Well, Dotti, Sammy thank you both for agreeing to be interviewed for the dash bash. Maybe a good first place to start would be about how you two got involved with Golden Wolf, and a little run down on what led up to the New York office.

Dotti Sinnot:

Yeah. Well, I can take this one Sammy, but feel free to jump in.

Sammy and I met at Golden Wolf, I started a month after him. He was a designer in his trial period and I had come on as a freelance producer right after my move to London. I had gone there without a job or anything lined up, just a lot of people to contact. Golden Wolf was one of the first places that I had a meeting at and I wound up never leaving.

Dotti Sinnot:

At the time, the studio was in its early phases. Golden Wolf was first started as the motion arm of the design studio, ILOVEDUST. The core team members have been working together for over a decade, even though Golden Wolf has only been around since 2013. It's an interesting team dynamic in that you have these people who have been with the company for years, even before the company existed. Eventually, the two studios moved in different directions between the animation and design arms. The design studio was based in the south of England, the animation studio was in London. There was this cultural shift between the two cities they were in, and they ultimately decided to start Golden Wolf as its own thing so that we could grow into our personality and develop the studio with the creative vision of Erlingsson.

Dotti Sinnott:

When I started, there were around 15 people. We've slowly been growing since. The studio always had a huge client base in the US, I was regularly working with Nike and Disney on the west coast. We dealt with a lot of challenges with time zones. We knew there would eventually be a need for us to expand to the US, there had been plans thrown around that never stuck until we finally had an American on staff.

Mack Garrison:

There you go.

Dotti Sinnot:

Yeah, had that good passport. I was in London for two years and ultimately decided that I wanted to move back to New York. When I went to the office and told the guys I was moving, Ingy said, “well you don't have to leave the company. Why don't we try and start something in New York?” So, for the first year, Golden Wolf NY was three feet around me at any point in time. That was three years ago. Now we have five people in the New York office and are still expanding. We're still working closely with London. We tend to work as a one studio mentality and put the artists who’re most appropriate for a project on it regardless of location.

Mack Garrison:

That's so cool. That had to be kind of jarring to be like, “all right, I'm quitting my job, and all of a sudden, I'm going to run a studio in New York.”

*“Apple Icon” — Created by Golden Wolf.*

Dotti Sinnot:

It was not how I expected that conversation to go. I came out of it and I was like, “Did I quit or did I get a promotion? I think both.”

Mack Garrison:

That's great. Sammy, how about you? Were you part of that original crew?

Sammy Moore:

So, I wasn't part of that original inner circle, I'm almost six years in now at Golden Wolf. Before joining, I was in and out of the freelance design and illustration circuit after traveling and graduation. I lived in Australia for a while, and then figured I'd move back to have a go at a proper freelance career. It took me two to three months to realize it wasn't for me. I hated it, I didn't like working by myself. Once I realized that, it was obvious what I needed to do. I don't know how many people actually know this but I didn't know who Golden Wolf was before I applied.

Mack Garrison:

That's great.

“...the one thing that we don't want to change is the quality of work that we're doing...knowing that every piece that we put out the door is the best possible piece that we can do with the time and resources we have.”

Sammy Moore:

Yeah, it's mad. Don't tell Ingi I said that. I told him I was a big fan.

I was browsing Twitter looking for something and stumbled over the design studio that Dotti mentioned. They had retweeted a call for a full-time illustrator and designer at Golden Wolf. I looked them over and instantly fell in love. The work back then was incredible. It's even better now. I headed down for an interview on a Thursday and started on the next Monday. The rest is history, man. I was in the studio for a while as a designer, illustrator. After about a year, I started moving into the art direction, which I've been doing for several years now. Then, as Dotti said, we met on a terrible job. Remember that one, Dotti?

“the good stories come from the shit jobs.”

*“Workspace SL20” — Created by Golden Wolf.*

Dotti Sinnott:

Yeah.

Sammy Moore:

So bad, but we bonded over that pretty quickly.

Dotti Sinnott:

I think that both of us were pretending we knew what we were doing.

Mack Garrison:

What is it about the trenches that bring people together?

Sammy Moore:

The good stories come from the shit jobs. I knew that Dotti was heading off, then Ingy had a similar conversation with me. He asked if it was a big partaking for her to set things up alone. One thing that we're proud of is the effort and consideration we put into the studio culture. It's all about making sure that there's space for people to feel like they can contribute. For that reason, we wanted to ensure that when we set up in the States, we’d carry over the same ethos we had in the London studio. That’s what makes Golden Wolf so special; the attitude we take towards the work. Our CD was pretty confident that between Dotti and I, we’d be able to do that. We decided that Dotti would handle production and I would handle creative. Now we're here coming up on three years.

Mack Garrison:

That's wild. Having a set culture is important. Having people that you like to hang out with, that you feel close with. If you don't like working with the people you're there with, the work is going to suffer from it. How do y'all go about trying to maintain that same culture that you had in the London office? Do you feel like it is still pretty similar, or are there nuances with each office?

Sammy Moore:

I feel like the last six months have seen a significant shift in the culture. As Dotti said, she was by herself for a while. We brought on two junior designers, one left, and then I came over. It's hard to set up a culture when there are only three of you because we were slammed all the time, running around.

You need to have a few more bodies in the room, just to have a bit more opportunity to bounce off each other and share things. Now we're sitting at five, it feels so different. There are more conversations and ideas. With 4+, you can finally start to enforce culture. Enforce isn't the right word, you can start encouraging the kind of dynamics and attitudes we have in London.

Mack Garrison:

That's a great answer. I remember when we first started dash. It was Cory, myself, and then we had our one illustrator, Meg. Poor Meg. She was the first person to join our team. It was just Cory and I arguing about what we should do and then Meg also trying to figure it out on her own. You don't have any culture when it's new, you know?

Was there ever a directive on what to grow the studio into? Were you all thinking about where you wanted your office to go, to become, the size? Or, was it more natural than that?

Dotti Sinnott:

We've thought a lot about how we want to grow things and what feels right for us. I think the key for us, regardless of what the studio eventually winds up looking for, the one thing that we don't want to change is the quality of work that we're doing. It could look different, it could be in a completely different style, but the thing that we want to hold true is that quality bar; knowing that every piece that we put out the door is the best possible piece that we can do with the time and resources we have.

That's something that can evolve in a lot of different ways. So, I don't think we'll ever get to the point where we're a huge production hub just churning out pieces. We're always going to think carefully about the projects we take on, what they mean for us as a studio, and how they represent our capabilities.

“being in the trenches together is what connects you, and being asked to move out of your comfort zone is when you grow as coworkers and as people who need to rely on each other...those are the chances where it's more powerful for the people working together than just the work itself.”

Dotti Sinnott:

To your earlier question, we understand that, while we're creating a culture that is reflective of what is in London it's never going to be exactly the same. We're different people with different cultural backgrounds. One of the nice things about having come from London is that the studio is multicultural. There are people from all over Europe with many different languages being spoken in that office. In New York, we have the opportunity to have the same; everybody coming on from different places, having different perspectives. That culture of creating quality can hold true despite any of those differences. So, a big piece of it is that we will be different, but we're always going to be Golden Wolf because we're going to do the best that we possibly can.

Sammy Moore:

Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. That's well said.

Mack Garrison:

I'm sure a lot of other smaller shops feel the same way. I look at what you all are doing with Golden Wolf and I get jealous of the fact that you can be picky about the work that you take on.

Mack Garrison:

How did you guys found yourselves positioning Golden Wolf to get to the point where you could be more selective about the work you're taking on? Was that gradual with time, or can you equate it back to a specific project?

*“Good Luck on the 25th” — Created by Golden Wolf.*

Dotti Sinnott:

Starting, you're always going to take on jobs just to get one step further. We have done our fair share of projects that weren't what we would choose to do today, but they were the option that we had at the time. A lot of it was luck, we were positioned in a certain space in the industry. We had a point of view that people were interested in learning more about and getting more of. So, there was this great happenstance when we were ready to move forward at a time that the industry was also looking for someone like us. It’s hard to quantify why that happened. It just did, and we feel lucky that we're there now to enjoy that space. For a while, we were able to take on projects that were cool but weren't the biggest budget. Or, they were for a client that we were interested in working with but maybe not exactly the creative that we wanted to do. We’d take them on anyway, just to work with those clients.

Dotti Sinnott:

We’d do a lot of small projects, all at once. I would be producing 10 to 15 jobs at a time while we had another producer and our CD also running projects. Maybe it was the way production ran, the visual style we developed, or the client relationships. We acknowledged these for every job and tried to direct them to new requests coming through; what did we learn from the previous projects? Is this an opportunity to try and do things better than we did last time? We kept building on it.

“animation is not something done in a vacuum. it’s not done by one person. it takes a huge team.”

So they were stepping stones. After doing different types of work, we started seeing what fit and what didn't; what was worth the extra investment. Animation is not something done in a vacuum. It's not done by one person. It takes a huge team, and a big reason why Golden Wolf is so successful is that everyone on that team is willing to put in more than the 9 to 5. We all work extra hours, all of us put in more time and heart than you would at a job with a better work/life balance. But we do it because we care about making something really great, and that’s the piece of culture we think about when hiring; is this person someone who is going to get the work done and leave at the end of the day? Or, are they someone who is going to get the work done and then think about how they can do it better tomorrow? That's the person we want to hire, the team we want to build, and the projects we try to take on.

Mack Garrison:

I'm pumped. I feel like I just got a virtual pep talk. I'm going to hang up the phone to make some animation. Like, “oh, I'm doing it for Dotti. I'm going to kill it for Dotti.”

Sammy Moore:

Yeah, right on.

Dotti Sinnott:

That's what makes my job easy, the people that I work with. Sammy and I were both talking about how, over the weekend, we were thinking about a current project with a few bumps in the road. I fell asleep last night and it popped into my head as I was putting my head onto the pillow. That happens to us all the time. We live and breathe this work.

Mack Garrison:

I like the idea of bringing in people. It's hard these days, everyone gets caught up on social media. They see the best of everyone's lives being put forward. It's easy to get caught up with instant fame or putting your work out. I think there's going to be a lot of students at the dash bash who are looking for a career in motion, so let’s talk a little bit more about what you were just saying.

What do you look for when looking at someone coming out of school? What are you looking for in a portfolio? What advice would you give graduating students to get on Golden Wolf's radar?

Sammy Moore:

We've had a lot of conversations, since Commotion because we saw such great work. Variety is always good, but I think one of the things we’re keen to see is when people want to push the boundaries and try new things. It's a passion thing, for sure. It sounds a bit cliché, but the only way we're able to achieve the level of finish and consistently, to draw clients back, is because the work we do is such high quality and pushes the boundaries in exploration.

In terms of a more specific kind of skill you can see from looking at a portfolio...variety. We have some people come to us with portfolios where it's all very similar. To be honest, when I had my interview with our CD, he genuinely had a concern. My work was good but all very similar. Something we pride ourselves on at Golden Wolf that is super valuable is the ability to work in different styles and adapt to different briefs. You see some students who can get a little bit caught up in trying to establish a style or figure out what their aesthetic is. Honestly, if I look at a portfolio and it's got variety, I'm into it straight away. You see that a person can work in several different ways and they instantly become more valuable.

“sometimes you just need a little bit more time to figure out whether you're the type of person who wants to be a specialist doing the same thing or you want to be a generalist with a little taste of everything. and both opportunities are good.”

Mack Garrison:

That's a really good point. For a while, people have said you need to be a specialist. I know when we're looking for folks to come onboard at dash, particularly because we're a small office, there's a necessity for everyone to do a bit of everything. You might have an animator who is doing some pre-production one day and style frames another day. They may even come up with ideas for a script. It's all over the place. So, when interviewing folks, we look for more of a generalist. If you can be talented in a multitude of different things, it shows me you're willing to explore new stuff. If I want someone to hire us for a particular thing, maybe that's better for freelance potentially, but I don't know if it's best when trying to be full-time within a studio. Would you all agree with that?

Sammy Moore:

Yes.

Dotti Sinnott:

Yeah, especially for a small studio, it's helpful to have people who can do a little bit of everything. Even if they're not great at it all, the fact that they're willing to try says a lot for a team. Being in the trenches together is what connects you, and being asked to move out of your comfort zone is when you grow as coworkers and as people who need to rely on each other. So those times where you need to jump in and do something different are when you’re proving that you're there to help. Even if you can't do it perfectly, it's better than not having anybody to do it.

Those are the chances where it's more powerful for the people working together than just the work itself. Another thing that gets glossed over when you go to school events, sometimes you're not going to get the right job immediately after graduating. It may take a while to figure out what your path is, and that's okay. There are a lot of different ways to get from point A to B, it's not always a straight path. I went to school for English and French. I wound up working at an Apple store and then in HR. Now I'm the executive producer of an animation studio. How did that happen?

Dotti Sinnott:

All of those things building on each other gave me this experience and helped me grow. Even if I wasn't able to do exactly what I wanted right out of school, I used the opportunities to learn as much as I could where I was while trying to work towards the next thing. Sometimes you just need a little bit more time to figure out whether you're the type of person who wants to be a specialist doing the same thing or you want to be a generalist with a little taste of everything. And both opportunities are good.

Mack Garrison:

I love that.

Sammy Moore:

At Commotion, I could see the pressure that a lot of these kids were putting on themselves to launch out of school and get straight into a role to start building experience. When I first graduated, I worked at the Nike store selling basketball shoes for a year before I moved to Golden Wolf. While working at Nike - I'm a real fanboy - I started doing personal projects because I wanted to work with them as a freelancer. Those projects ended up being the stuff that stuck out to Golden Wolf because they were doing so much work with Nike at the time. Now I'm here.

There's no way I could have foreseen that happening. But all that time I spent selling sneakers was worth it, it gave my voice and my story a different trajectory when compared to anybody else's. Stumbling through and getting some experience is a lot more realistic and to be encouraged, rather than putting pressure on yourself to get that job at work or whatever. You've got to get out there and figure out what you want to do. There's no time cap on that. You've got to do it at your own pace.

*“What’s Your Style?” — Created by Golden Wolf.*

Mack Garrison:

There's so much pressure when you're coming out of school to get in the game quickly. But, taking time off, traveling a little bit, clearing your head, figuring out what you're into; I think that all pays huge dividends. Or in your case, living out in the middle of nowhere in Australia.

Dotti Sinnott:

Just don't ask him about the kangaroos.

Mack Garrison:

Well, I don't want to keep you all too long. I know we covered a lot and I asked all the questions. Aside from coming to hang out with your favorite friends in North Carolina, is there a teaser for what you guys might speak about or anything you're looking forward to touching on?

Dotti Sinnott:
Right now, we’re just making a list of things that we could start talking about, we figured over the summer we'd start to dig into it a little bit more. All that to say, we don't know where we're going to be in a few months.

*“Brown Skin” — Created by Golden Wolf.*

Mack Garrison:

The best thing about this festival is that it might be the first time anyone is allowed to go hang out with other people, which to me is just amazing that they would choose our conference to come to do that at.

Dotti Sinnott:

I'm excited to see how weird everyone is with other people when we finally get out of this.

Mack Garrison:

Just a bunch of socially-awkward folks. I mean animators and designers are kind of introverts already haha. I'm looking forward to hanging out with you all, assuming everything goes to plan.

Sammy Moore:

Sounds great, man.

Dotti Sinnott:

Yeah, it sounds awesome. Let us know if you need anything else from us.

Mack Garrison:

Absolutely. You know what I need Sammy? Dotti is going to kill me because I know she hasn't gotten any yet, but I still want some of that hot sauce you were promising me about from down in Savannah.

Sammy Moore:

There is a bottle in the fridge with your name on it, man. I promise.

Mack Garrison:

I love it. I'm stoked.

Sammy Moore:

You know what? I'm going to bring you two bottles.

Mack Garrison:

Two bottles? You animal. Cool, well thank you all for hanging. It's good to catch up again.

Sammy Moore:

Yeah, likewise.

Dottie Sinnott:

For sure!

Mack Garrison:

We'll talk soon.

Guest User 3/30/21 Guest User 3/30/21

Takeover Tuesday with Bárbara Nozari

Wrapping up our Women’s History Month's, Takeover Tuesday’s is Bárbara Nozari! Bárbara is a motion designer and character animator based in Brazil.

Q&A with Bárbara Nozari
Read time: 5min

Why did you choose your profession?

I don't have a specific answer to that. Motion design was something that piqued my interest, I soon realized I didn't want to do anything else.

How did you go about starting out?

I had studied advertising in college, I thought I would work as an art director in some advertising agency. At some point, I started as an intern at a web tv company. I did everything; graphic design, short scripts, filming, editing. After that internship, I got a job in broadcast television as a film editor while making some broadcast identity and animation packages on the side. My interest in animation grew and I started to study more (I was always a self-learner). From there, I started to nail some animation jobs and never stopped.

“(women’s history month) represents a month to remember that we women are very strong. that we’ve gotten more rights and equality through struggle. that this fight must not stop.”

What does Women’s History Month mean to you?

To me, it represents a month to remember that we women are very strong. That we’ve gotten more rights and equality through struggle. That this fight must not stop.

Why is it significant in 2021, particularly?

Even in the 21st century we still see a lot of gender inequality, violence against women, and cultural rights that benefit only men while punishing women.

What do you love most about what you do?

I love creating things. Being able to experiment with shapes, styles, colors, and ideas; to look at all that and smile is what makes me happy.

What would you change?

The industries of illustration, animation, and cinema have always been very masculine. I never knew the reason, but fortunately, this has begun to change. Today we can see a greater diversity of gender and ethnicity. If I could, I would change the fact that a creative’s sex, gender, ethnicity, etc. doesn't matter when landing a job, but the quality of work alone.

Tell me about a woman you look up to and why.

I admire my mother. She is a very wise, strong woman. As a child, she was poor but always struggled to work hard. She taught me right from wrong.

“I love creating things. being able to experiment with shapes, styles, colors, and ideas; to look at all that and smile is what makes me happy.”

What’s the best career (or life) advice you have received?

I never received any advice, but I always tell my eldest daughter that she should choose a profession or job that will make her happy. This is the most important thing for me.

Do you have any advice for young women first starting out in this industry?

For the girls who are just starting out, I tell them not to be afraid to hear “no” or to hear heavy criticism. Use this to better your work and always study, because nobody but yourself will teach you how to do things.

Do you currently prioritize your work-life balance? If so, how?

I try to prioritize having a balance. This makes me both work harder on the job and acknowledge happy moments when I'm with my family or doing a hobby.

I like to organize my schedules to always keep my commitments and activities at consistently set times. And when I have to work late, I always talk to my children so that they understand.

What barriers are women still facing in the industry? How do you think they can go about breaking them down?

We still see more men than women in animation studios and in advertising agencies. In order to change this scenario, we as women have to show ourselves more, publicize our work, expand our network, and refer other women whenever we can.

“…not to be afraid to hear ‘no’ or to hear heavy criticism. use this to better your work and always study, because nobody but yourself will teach you how to do things.”

Where do you go for inspiration?

Sometimes the inspiration comes from my children's games, or maybe from a landscape I saw. Mostly, it comes from normal things seen throughout my day.

Any closing points, advice, or statement you would like to share?

Don't be ashamed of who you are, where you come from, and what makes you happy.

“we still see more men than women in animation studios and in advertising agencies…we as women have to show ourselves more, publicize our work, expand our network, and refer other women whenever we can.”

Animation by Bárbara Nozari.