Mack Garrison 3/5/24 Mack Garrison 3/5/24

Takeover Tuesday with Andrea García

An interview with Andrea García: a 26 year old Mexican artist living in Mexico City that graduated from Universidad Anáhuac in Multimedia Design who has great interest in character design and visual development.

Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi

Read time: 5min

Bella:

Thank you for joining us in this series, Andrea! Can you please introduce yourself?

Andrea:

It’s my pleasure! Thank you for inviting me. My name is Andrea García, I am a 26 year old Mexican artist.

Bella:

How did your art career begin?

Andrea:

It begin little by little. I started taking as many character design and illustration courses as I could. Once I started to feel more confident about my work, I decided to volunteer at projects. In this phase I designed characters, I interned as a color artist for a movie, and I started offering my illustrations as a freelance. After that, and after a lot of failure, projects started coming.

Bella:

What is the design industry like in Mexico City?

Andrea:

I think it’s a very competitive industry where you have to give your best to stand out. But I think that is great, because thanks to this, every time there are more talented mexican artists.

Also, people in this industry are very nice. Professionals are always open to help you grow and give you advice if you reach out for them. So, it’s a great time to be a part of this industry.

Bella:

Is there an artist or piece of work that inspires your art style?

Andrea:

Absolutely, a lot of them actually. But if I have to name a few, I would say Stephen Silver, Jean Fraisse, Torsten Schrank, and Gaby Zermeño.

Bella:

When you're feeling stuck, what keeps you going?

Andrea:

Definitely the motivation of achieving my dream. Feeling stuck is normal, specially when you are working hard on something with no results, and I think it’s okay to take breaks when needed. As I said, it’s a very competitive industry, and this also means it’s hard to get in. There are many rejections on the way, and this can be very frustrating sometimes, but you have to be patient with your path and figure out how to get better until you make it.

I guess I was so sure of what I wanted to do, that I just had to come back every time and keep going.

Bella:

Do you have a dream project or anything specific that you dream of working on?

Andrea:

Yes, I dream on designing the characters of a big movie.

Bella:

Are there any mediums or styles you'd still like to explore, but haven't yet?

Andrea:

Sure, but I think there are some things that you explore on the way. Working for different clients definitely helps with this style exploration, and I am sure this will keep making me expand my styles.

Bella:

Is there a project you've worked on so far that stands out as a favorite to you? Why?

Andrea:

Yes, a pilot episode for a TV show where I worked as a character designer. This was great for me because I had a lot of creative freedom, so the characters turned out to be pretty much what I pictured them to be. Also, I love working on projects for children, and this was the case. I got to work with amazing people and it was so exciting to be a part of a talented team. There were a lot of things that made this project special and I am really grateful that I got to be a part of it.

Bella:

Is there anything coming up that you're excited about?

Andrea:

There is! I am about to start a new project where I will be designing the characters of a new TV show. I am really excited about it!

Mack Garrison 2/13/24 Mack Garrison 2/13/24

Takeover Tuesday with Elizabeth Gu

An interview with Elizabeth Gu: is an illustrator and designer based in Houston, TX. With an interest in creating worlds suspended between fantasy and reality, she likes to relate these unseen, surreal worlds to the psyche and internal states of mind that are often difficult to express through words.

Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi

Read time: 5min

Bella:

Hi Elizabeth! Thanks for taking over this Tuesday with us. Can you please introduce yourself?

Elizabeth:

First of all, thank you so much for having me! I'm so excited to contribute to this series.

My name is Elizabeth and I’m a designer and illustrator based in Houston, TX. I initially studied civil engineering before taking what feels like a tremendous leap into the design world. At the time, I was working as Art Director at my school’s daily news publication and pretty much decided to take my interests in illustration and design more seriously. After shifting gears, I got my first design internship with Pixel Park. Interning there was super formative to my artistic growth, but also more profoundly - my sense of community in the motion design industry. Shout out to the Pixel Park family, love you guys! <3

Since then I’ve found myself freelancing on projects in graphic design, editorial illustration, and motion design. I feel very fortunate to have landed these opportunities and I’m just excited to continue learning more.

Bella:

What sparked your interest in illustration/design?

Elizabeth:

I spent a lot of time drawing, painting, and dabbling in arts and crafts as a child. So I think the interest has always inherently been there in some way. When I got a bit older I started messing around with digital art and using an Intuos tablet for the first time. Making the switch from traditional to digital was absolutely mind boggling while opening up this whole new world.

As a Chinese-American, I grew up with certain expectations about what my job should look like and the reality of adulthood made anything artistic feel like a non-option. However, when I was studying at the University of Southern California, I came across their animation program and ended up completing an animation minor. So as an adult, I was able to rediscover what illustration and design meant to me while also seeing how art could be applied in the real world.

*Illustration titles “Dreamless Slumber.”*

Bella:

What inspires you and your work?

Elizabeth:

I love themes of magical realism and surrealism. Both visually and conceptually - things like seeing the ordinary as opportunities for magical moments. As a child, I was enchanted by the kodamas in Hayao Miyazaki’s Princess Mononoke. Or the soot sprites hidden away in the old countryside house in My Neighbor Totoro. Ideas that were saying if you looked closely enough, you would find something sacred and magical. Perspectives of reality can bend.

Also as a general rule of thumb, I try to stay open minded to new experiences. This keeps the flow of inspiration in motion for myself. Seeing new places, people, or perhaps indulging in new food from different cultures. Anything to expand and change your brain is so invaluable for creatives.

Bella:

What advice do you have for artists trying to find clients?

Elizabeth:

I would say to value every interaction you have within the community. Don’t expect anything to be a one-off, and put in energy to stay connected with the people it comes naturally with. Not only do you end up learning a lot from them, but it’s also an immense mood booster when you’re feeling lonely on your freelancer island.

Speaking more strategically, Motion Hatch is a wonderful resource that goes more deeply into the freelance game. Hayley Akins talks about how to build your online presence, warm up to clients, but also how to use your pre-existing network (work smarter not harder). I know for me specifically, I learned a lot about how to phrase cold emails but she has since put out a ton of useful content specific to the motion design industry. Definitely worth checking out!

*Frame from one of Elizabeth’s Social Media Explorations for* *Pixel Park.*

Bella:

A lot of your work has a deeper meaning and seems to be expressive of something you've been through. How has illustration helped you through tough times?

Elizabeth:

I’ve always been drawn to illustration that operates like visual essay. Subconsciously, I want my own work to have layers of story that might be interpreted in different nuanced ways. I think it's helped me in the sense that it doesn't require verbal explanation and the healing is in the process. It's like a meditation through the act of creation.

Granted, sometimes my pieces can feel so obviously diaristic I want to take them back because it’s too embarrassing! But then you realize everyone is the same way, stumbling in their vulnerability. So better to have shared than to hide away. It's kind of what art is for - to share and discover that we're all the same in a lot of ways.

Bella:

I love the colors and textures you use. What's your process of finding a color palette for a project like?

Elizabeth:

Thank you! I think working with colors might be my favorite part of the whole process. I usually gravitate towards purpley blues and love pairing that base with yellow or pink accents. Anything that gives off a moonlit nocturnal scene I’m pretty much always partial to. With specific projects where this isn’t the case, I usually first identify the tone and mood. Then I play around with colors that match and I take time to assess my reaction. I try to find ways to use my favorite ones into projects, but I also like the challenge of an unfamiliar color that isn’t in my typical wheelhouse. I’m not a color expert, but the process is often an intuitive back and forth more than anything else.

Bella:

What advice would you give to someone who is "trying to find their style"?

Elizabeth:

I would say a big part of it is honoring your interests and being willing to explore them in your work. I still find this difficult myself when certain visual styles are in vogue and seem to dominate the “look” of the industry. But personal style is ever-changing and takes a bit of time to develop, so it's important to keep creating and investigating what you like. It helps me to see it as creative playtime rather than the pressure of finding your style as soon as possible.

Bella:

Do you have a dream project or client you'd like to work with?

Elizabeth:

I always have a hard time answering this! I think there are so many cool projects going on, both big and small. I would say story-based concepts that are emotionally explorative in nature would be such a treat to contribute to!

I’ve recently been enjoying sci-fi content like Scavengers Reign which has such immersive alien world visuals. Bladerunner 2049 is another recent watch of mine and I can’t get the striking dystopian set design out of my head. Paired with concepts about the human condition, our relationship with technology, environmentalism, etc. I find any project that touches on these themes so compelling.

Studio-wise, I have also adored Chromosphere’s work. In particular, the short film “My Moon” which explores romantic versus practical love. This is represented in a love triangle with the Earth, Moon, and Sun. The Sun provides light, energy, and color to the Earth while the Moon is less practical. I’m such a sucker for symbolism in the form of celestial bodies!

Bella:

Is there anything you've learned as an artist thus far that you wish you knew when you first started?

Elizabeth:

I wish I understood sooner that the only person I was competing with was myself. As someone who came from engineering where a lot of processes can be more linear with exact steps - I started creating this unnatural checklist fueled by anxiety and comparison. I remember telling myself I needed to work with certain clients by a certain age which was absolutely ridiculous and unfair to myself when I needed the time to switch industries and gain footing. Obviously there are crucial beats to hit such as developing your portfolio, but in large it’s much healthier to be patient with yourself and let your circumstances naturally guide you.

“*The Big Role Nostalgia Plays in My Life”*

Bella:

Anything exciting coming up that you're excited to share?

Elizabeth:

Client-wise, I designed a piece for Blue Cross Blue Shield of North Carolina that’s out now! Many thanks to Kyle Griffin who animated and also played a major role with design concepts.

And for personal work, I would be remiss to not mention My Shadow which was designed under my mentorship with Dash. Shout out to Meryn Hayes and Meg Snyder for supporting my ideas and offering their sage advice along the way! It deals with themes of the inner child and rekindling a sense of wonder and curiosity.

*“My Shadow” Based on a personal dream where a young girl is gifted her shadow.*

Mack Garrison 1/30/24 Mack Garrison 1/30/24

Takeover Tuesday Catarina Alves

An interview with Catarina Alves (AKA itsacat): a Graphic Designer and Illustrator born in Portugal who is constantly diving into the world of shapes and colours to bring them to life through animation.

Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi

Read time: 5min

Bella:

Thanks so much for joining our Takeover Tuesday series, Catarina! Please introduce yourself for the people who aren’t familiar with you.

Catarina:

Thank you for having me! I'm so happy! I'm Catarina, an illustrator and designer. I was born in Porto and currently live in Amsterdam. I've always been interested in art because my parents are both artists, so I studied graphic design.

I currently work as a designer/illustrator for the animation industry.

Aside from my work, I have a cat called Jimi and I'm obsessed with him (he reminds me of the Chinese lucky cat, fat and fluffy).

One of my hobbies is scuba diving but, now that I live in the Netherlands, it seems nonsense haha. However, it's something that makes me completely disconnect and feel like I'm in a whole different world. So, whenever I go on vacation, I try to go to destinations where I can dive to detox from the whole year I've been in front of a computer.

I'm also obsessed with food, and I love trying new restaurants with different concepts.

Bella:

How did you get into the motion design industry?

Catarina:

I started studying Graphic Design, and then I had the opportunity to work in a video mapping company. I began to explore 3D and 2D animation, so I took a postgraduate course in motion design. From that moment onwards, I had worked in an animation production company in Barcelona for five years.

However, keyframes weren't exactly what I wanted to do, mainly because my background was in design, so I started working more as an illustrator/art director for animation. Everything I learned in animation made the transition easier, as I began to understand better how to develop ideas and to design for the animation world.

*Welcome illustration for Catarina’s website.*

Bella:

What’s your experience been like working with Buck?

Catarina:

I'm really glad about this new step in my career. I had spent three years as a freelancer and, although it was something I loved doing, I have always had the ambition to work at Buck and develop my skills alongside their team.

Sometimes, changing from freelance to full-time can be challenging because both have pros and cons. But, so far, it's been a great experience to work with a team again, absorb wider knowledge, and grow professionally.

When we have such a talented team, sometimes we can feel pressured about your work, but, at the same time, we can learn more and understand that everyone has the same fear. So, we need to start believing in our skills. Nothing is impossible.

Bella:

I love all of the different characters you create. How do you give unique personalities to each of them?

Catarina:

Oh, thank you so much! I don't have an answer to that because I don’t have a very defined style like some artists. I try to absorb a bit from my day-to-day life and gain inspiration; which means that most of the things I develop are very trial and error oriented.

I have always had some difficulty in drawing certain body parts and I started doing it regularly so that I would feel more comfortable in that area. That’s why nowadays I really like drawing hands with different proportions.

I like exploring different styles, namely 3D realistic drawings, and more minimalist images…

When I don’t feel that inspired, I look up for photos I like and stylize the character as much as possible. That helps me develop my skills and explore my creativity.

*Forbes Virtual NFT Billionaire Character Illustrations*

Bella:

What’s the workflow like when combining 2D with 3D?

Catarina:

I've always loved mixing media between 2D and 3D, and for that reason I’ve been working a lot with Jonas, as he is a 3D designer. One of the best things when you team up with someone is trying to take the most out of the other person’s skills.

So I started creating some drawings, and then Jonas would do the modelling. After that, I could explore different textures, colours, and ideas.

I began to feel that some of the things would work better in 2D rather than 3D, so I decided to replace some 3D elements. Then, we realized that it works and brings character to our work.

Bella:

Is there a project you’ve worked on that stands out as a favorite to you?

Catarina:

One of the projects I loved doing was for Forbes. I was lucky enough to have all the freedom to design this project. The idea was to create different characters that could work as a toolkit.

I started by developing the first sketches, working on proportions, and exploring different eyes, hair, and clothing.

The challenge was to integrate 2D well into 3D. So the same eyes or hair could work on other faces. I felt really happy with the result, and the client did too, which was very important to us.

Another one was a secret pitch, I really enjoyed working on it. It consisted in an animation video using paper characters. When I saw the references for the first time, I thought, “Omg, what am I going to do with those paper references, how can I create some cool characters using paper?” So it was a challenge!

At the end, it turned out to be an incredible assignment, one I couldn’t even imagine it would have such a new and different result. For me, developing the animals was a challenge because I wanted them to be singular and, at the same time, to be able to build them up on paper. We nailed it because we had finally found a graphic style with which we identified ourselves.

I share with you my favourite animal.

Bella:

What/who inspires you?

Catarina:

Lots of things and people. It’s something that happens naturally on a daily basis. I learn something new every day, whether through a conversation, a project I've had the opportunity to collaborate on, or just something I've seen.

I'm a person who is constantly overthinking about everything but also very emotional at the same time, so, sometimes, the way to get my feelings out is through drawing. So, my biggest inspiration is my daily life.

Bella:

What advice do you have for getting out of a creative rut?

Catarina:

When I feel blocked, I try to get out of my routine, see something new, take a different route, and try to meet someone I haven't met for a long time, but who will bring me something new. Nowadays, it’s very normal to feel blocked; there’s so much going on around you that sometimes it makes you feel too small.

Most importantly, we should respect that sometimes we need time and space and not push ourselves too much; take your time.

Bella:

How would you describe your brand/style?

Catarina:

It’s a tricky question; I’ve never thought about it. It was something I developed when I started freelancing since it's important to show more solidity and to keep up to date. Whenever I develop a new project, I try to explore other styles within "my" style. I don't like to feel that I'm always doing the same thing because I end up building limitations and not growing professionally.

I think that the best way to describe my brand/style is as friendly and with a great connection with graphic design.

*Some of Catarina’s personal illustrations!*

Bella:

Anything coming up that you’re excited about?

Catarina:

There are many things, but I’ve been working on a toy, in collaboration with my partner, Jonas, for some time. I've almost finished the design, and now we're working on the modelling to print and paint it. We will do everything in-house because we had already explored some prototypes a year ago and want to do everything from scratch. The idea will be to develop a limited edition. I love drawing something and bringing it to life; I think it’s quite special.

Mack Garrison 1/16/24 Mack Garrison 1/16/24

Takeover Tuesday with Charmaine Yu

An interview with Charmaine Yu: freelance illustrator and designer from the Philippines. I'm passionate about storytelling, and I have a curiosity that constantly fuels my drive to improve, try new things, and learn new skills

Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi

Read time: 5min

Bella:

Thank you for joining us for Takeover Tuesday, Charmaine! Please introduce yourself!

Charmaine:

Happy to have been invited 😊I’m Charmaine Yu! I’m a freelance illustrator and designer from the Philippines. I love working on motion design projects — creating storyboards, style frames, character designs, and other illustrated assets. When possible, I also enjoy working on editorial and branding projects. Recently, I’ve also started to call myself a budding cel animator, since being immersed into the world of motion design & animation has really inspired me to take the steps to learn how to make my drawings move.

Bella:

How did you get to where you are today in the industry?

Charmaine:

Hmm, there are definitely a whole bunch of things that I’m grateful for that helped me get to where I am now – education, experience, support, trust, luck, and dedication (or in other words stubbornness 😂).

I started off my career in 2019 as a fresh graduate from the University of the Philippines with a BFA in Visual Communication. Then, I worked as an in-house illustrator for a local tech startup, but after a year, I felt like I wasn’t making the work that I wanted to and decided to make a huge shift by jumping into freelance. Around the same time, I took School of Motion’s Illustration for Motion online course, which gave me the confidence to start doing work in the motion design space. Afterwards, I got to connect with amazing talented people in the industry, worked on my first few motion projects (thanks to studios and fellow freelancers who took a chance on me), and joined different motion communities where people would share resources, experiences, and opportunities (like MDA and Panimation slack channels).

Since then, whenever I’m on a project, I make sure to do good work; when I’m not on a project, I continue reaching out to studios/agencies, work on personal pieces or projects, and find ways to improve my skills.

Since I jumped into this industry as a freelancer and never got to experience being a part of a motion studio yet (though it is definitely something that I want to do in 2024 or after), research, reaching out, and asking questions have been incredibly important to navigating the industry. Being a part of Dash’s mentorship program in early 2023 also helped me so much in figuring out how certain things work, as well as how I could grow and progress as a creative.

I still have a long way to go career and skill-wise, but I’m incredibly fortunate and grateful to have been a part of some fun projects so far and to have worked with people across the globe!

*In her free time, you might find Charmaine interacting with animals, figuring out cel animation, crocheting, learning a language, or searching for my next adventure.*

Bella:

Do you have any advice for someone trying to be a freelance artist full-time?

Charmaine:

A WHOLE BUNCH. Hope it’s ok if I share a few!

Firstly, before going freelance full-time, create a potential client list. It would be a much smoother start into freelance if you already have a few potential clients who know and/or trust you and would probably be able to give you some work. If not, at least have an idea of who you can offer your services to and who would be your target clients.

Secondly, build out your savings (ideally enough to cover 6 months to 1 year of expenses) so that you’ve got a financial safety net in case it gets tough to find work, especially within the first year or so (or during a recession). This also gives you some financial peace of mind — enough to avoid pricing low on jobs just to get some money to pay the bills.

There’s a lot more I could say, but to keep it short, here’s my last piece of advice: talk to other freelancers. Working as a freelance artist can be kinda lonely — you may not have a team that you always work with or a boss/mentor to approach when you need guidance. I think it’s incredibly helpful to find freelancer friends who you could share experiences with; ask for help, advice, or critique when you need it; or collaborate with when working on larger projects.

Bella:

I loooove your characters. They have so much personality. How do you give life to something that isn't human, like your fluffy cloud-like creature in "Bounce"?

Charmaine:

Ahhh, thanks so much! Hmm, whenever I create characters (human or non-human), I always try to come up with a backstory: What’s their personality like? Why are they doing whatever they’re doing in the scene? What’s their relationship with other characters in the story? How are they feeling in this moment? And so on. This really helps to build up the “why” in my character designs and informs my decisions in the shape language, details, colors, etc.

Bella:

Is there a project you've done that stands out as a favorite to you?

Charmaine:

Well, “Bounce” definitely remains as one of my top favorites. It was my first fully illustrated looping animation! I went into it not quite sure if I could actually make what I was imagining in my head and with no idea of whether what I was doing was even right, but I came out of it incredibly happy with the outcome!

I said “yes” to something I haven’t really done before and gave myself a difficult challenge, but I was thankfully able to do it and deliver! So this project really felt like such an accomplishment to me and that I had leveled up because of it!

Bella:

What kind of work is most fulfilling to you?

Charmaine:

I find it very fulfilling when I get to discuss and brainstorm ideas on the project I’m working on — in other words, any project where I have a voice that will be heard and where I can suggest concepts, art direction, visual solutions, or approaches to accomplish the project’s goal. Basically, I like being valued as an artist not only by my technical skills, but my creative ideas & vision as well.

Being able to collaborate with a team of amazing artists is also incredibly fulfilling for me. I think it’s so awesome to have creatives, all with different skills and strengths, working together on a larger project and creating something that might’ve been impossible for just 1 person to make — like a community helping each other out and working towards a common goal.

Bella:

What method are you using to learn 2D cel animation?

Charmaine:

I’m on the journey of teaching myself 2D cel animation — that means Youtube “academy”, whatever free or affordable resources I can find online, books, lots of practice, and self-discipline. However, I’ll be honest that my cel animation learning has been kinda on and off throughout 2023. To add to that, it’s also been way too easy for me to just consume study content about cel animation and call it a day (or as it was coined in a substack post by Beth Spencer — “pro-CLASS-tinating” 😅). However, I’ve realized that I want to be serious about learning this, and that if I didn’t put in the hard work and actually apply those learnings into consistent practice, then I would never make any progress. That’s why, last November, I started planning out my own lesson plan, exercises, and personal projects that I wanted to work on in order get those practice hours in and create more animated work. I’m not sure how long it’ll take for me to get good and become more confident in my animation skills, but I’ll probably keep at it till I get there!

Some learning resources that I’ve been using include The Animator’s Survival Kit by Richard Williams, various Skillshare classes, and youtube videos (like those from Alex Grigg & Toniko Pantoja). I’ve also been studying animated shows (especially anime, which is a goldmine of amazing handdrawn animated goodness), films, and works from amazing animators I follow online (e.g. Reece Parker, Rachel Reid, Jocie Juritz, Henrique Barone).

“Bounce” - One of Charmaine’s favorite projects.

Bella:

Where/what do you get inspiration from?

Charmaine:

Anywhere and everywhere, really! I love getting inspired by artists I follow on Instagram, articles I read on Substack/Creative Boom/It’s Nice That, whatever I come across on Pinterest, and films & series that I’ve watched. Outside of the screen, I also draw inspiration from people-watching, nature, travelling, my daily life, and other experiences.

Bella:

What helps you get out of a creative block?

Charmaine:

Whenever I’ve felt uninspired, I’ve never liked trying to force my way through it as often it leads to results that I’m not really happy with. Instead, I find it helpful to step away for a bit, take a break, and do something that can relax my creative brain. Usually, I would get off my desk to take a walk, grab a snack, play with my cats, or simply take a nap — it’s amazing how many times sleep has given me a creative boost!

If the creative block is kinda bad, like maybe bordering on burnout, I would ideally take a longer break and try to find some inspiration: maybe I’ll decide to play around with materials and mediums that I wouldn’t normally work with, or maybe I’ll go on a vacation to see some new sights and create new experiences.

*A set of styleframes that I created for a client titled “A Different World.”*

Bella:

Any advice/takeaways?

Charmaine:

Sharing as advice something that I absolutely live by: Never stop learning! Whether it’s to improve your current skills to help level up your work or to learn a new hobby that you just want to get into, don’t be afraid to get out of your comfort zone, make mistakes, and learn something new ✨

Thanks again for inviting me onto Takeover Tuesdays and hope everyone has a lovely day!

Mack Garrison 12/12/23 Mack Garrison 12/12/23

Takeover Tuesday with Nicola Gigante

An interview with Nicola Giganta: an illustrator based in Orlando, FL whose focus lies in signage design, illustration, background painting and concept art for both the film and themed entertainment industries.

Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi

Read time: 5min

Bella:

Yo Nico! Can you give a lil' introduction for those who aren't familiar with you?

Nico:

Hi y’all my name is Nicola but my friends call me Nico. I’m an illustrator and concept artist originally from Mexico but based in Florida for the past 16 years. If I’m not in the studio working on a project you’ll catch me painting outside, playing soccer, traveling a la backpack, or trying to tire out my restless Aussie.

Bella:

What led you to a career in the art world?

Nico:

I feel very lucky to have discovered art long before I knew it could become a legit career path. When I was a kid, I’d fill out my homework papers with fantastical sketches from top to bottom, my teachers weren’t necessarily happy about that, but everyone sort of knew I was “the kid who can draw”. I also feel very lucky to come from a family who fostered and encouraged me to do what made me the happiest, and that was art! (but trust me, they weren’t very happy about me sketching on my math homework either). My mom is an award winning chef and my dad an architect and pottery artist, so if I wasn’t hanging out in the kitchen, you’d find me making clay sculptures. This cross-pollination environment helped a lot with fueling my creative imagination. Fast forward a bunch of years later, and I found myself making both the hardest and easiest decision of my life, should I go to art school, or should I pursue another non-creative career path at a more “traditional” university. I ended up choosing to attend SCAD for illustration. To me that was a “no-brainer”, easy choice because I knew I’d be pursuing my passion and love for art, but it was also hard because I still wasn’t unsure about what a life as an artist outside of school and home might look like, and all the challenges that my decision could bring in the coming years. That was certainly scary.

Bella:

How do you think your time at SCAD made a difference in your life?

Nico:

My time in SCAD made a huge impact in my life. It was very much a right of passage for me, and I’m very lucky to have had that experience. I joined as a transfer student in the spring of 2015, and made a few friends on the first day, many of them whom I’m still very close to. SCAD is located in Savannah, a beautiful Spanish moss-adorned city just by the South Carolina-Georgia line. Living there was very inspiring in so many ways, and my peers, professors, and friends all contributed to my growth as an artist.

Bella:

Is there a project you've worked on that stands out as a favorite to you?

Nico:

I’ve been a part of many projects that have been in a way cornerstones in my career, most of them spanning different industries. When I’m posed with the “what’s your favorite project so far” to me is like asking a parent to chose a favorite child! But one project that I really enjoyed doing was the concept art I was tasked to do for the award-winning short film FATHEAD. Within the first meetings I had with the film director c. Craig and the producers, I knew this was a passion project for many in the production, and I immediately felt both very lucky and the pressure to do my very best. During the production, I got the chance to collaborate with many talented people in all departments of the filmmaking pipeline, and I got my first end-credits mention in a movie! FATHEAD has been shown in many film festivals around the world, and it’s won a lot of awards so far such as gold at the prestigious Cannes Film Festival in France! It is also the first film to be produced in Amazon’s LED volume, a new technology in filmmaking that’s already breaking ground in the industry, with shows like The Mandalorian and HBO’s House of Dragons using it after FATHEAD paved the way.

Bella:

It must be so cool to see your work out in the world, like at The Children's Music Museum in Upstate/Greenville, South Carolina. What was the workflow like for this project?

Nico:

The Marsh Music project at the Children’s Museum in Greenville has to be also one of my favorite projects I’ve worked on so far in my career. No short in challenges though, I was very fortunate to have worked alongside creative powerhouses Jessica and Henry Marchant of Marchant Creative Group to bring this space and it’s characters to life. It started with a story about a frog and his swamp friends, all living in the South Carolina marshlands. The big element to the story is music and education. Each section of he story, or “beat”, features a different musical instrument that kids can learn to play as they go around the room. The concept/beginning stages of this project involved a lot of meetings to come up with the instruments that needed to not just sound good and work well but tie in to the story and setting, so we designed them all to fit the swamp/marshland theme. After a few brainstorming sessions, we came up with a lot of fun things, from rain wheels in the shape of lily pads, drums shaped like turtles, to a giant banjo/harp instrument that looks like an alligator! I then proceeded to illustrate 12 murals, character designs, and a few posters in an animated style that was quite new to me, but one that I’ve adopted well into other projects and personal pieces afterwards. If you’re ever in the Greenville area make sure to stop by and check it out!

Bella:

What advice would you give someone who is trying to "find their style”?

Nico:

When I was in college, and slightly after graduating I had a really hard time being happy with what I was producing as an artist. I remember being surrounded by lot’s of very talented illustrators and artists whom styles were so well defined it left me thinking “I’m so behind”. Finding your style isn’t a straight path, but a windy and bumpy one. It takes a lot of trial and error. One of my favorite quotes from a mentor I had earlier in my career is “practice makes progress”. If you find yourself having doubts about your work and your own style, just keep producing, don’t stop. A baby who stops at the crawling phase will never learn how to walk. I don’t mean to sound cliché or anything like that but everyone has a style, just like we all have different fingerprints! It’s just a matter of time before you find it and hone your skills, because most of the time you’ll likely be the last to notice it while people around you will see it first.

Bella:

Where do you find inspiration? How do you combat creative burnout?

Nico:

Inspiration is everything, everywhere, all at once. I am inspired by other artists, the masters of old too. When you imagine you’re inspired. Music is a big player in my inspiration along with traveling. I sometimes find myself listening to a song and imagining the lyrics transform into a music video inside my head. Going places is a way I relieve burnout, it allows me to have a break from the screen and tablet. It’s a way to recharge by doing other things not related to your daily routines back home. Traveling is a big source of inspiration for me as well. When I break up my daily routine to go someplace new or old, I try to look at everything from an artist point of view. Inspiration is fueled by intrigue. I like to question how things are made, like what makes a certain object interesting that most people would otherwise consider mundane or ordinary. Finding beauty in the mundane is a great way to overcome the “art block”. Once I started looking at the world through that lens I started producing art that I was very happy with!

*Planning for the Marsh Music Exhibit in Greenville, SC.*

Bella:

What's your favorite type of project to work on?

Nico:

Good question! I love projects that have a story behind it. To me, stories are the veil of good art, because without a story then how can anyone relate? The nature of being an illustrator means sometimes I’d be tasked to a project that doesn’t necessarily have a specific story to tell, but by looking at it through the lens I talked about in the previous question, I try to make it interesting and fun. I specifically love animation and film. Growing up I remember being so intrigued by the backgrounds in Disney movies and other tv shows that I’d sometimes forget about the plot. Some of my favorite projects have been illustrating backgrounds and landscapes. To me they’re just as important as the main characters themselves!

Bella:

What are your favorite softwares and tools to use when illustrating?

Nico:

I like to think the ax doesn’t to the tree cutting, the lumberjack does. Tools are there to help, not create. A lot of amazing things have come out of a simple napkin sketch, like the design of the new Chevy Camaro for the Bumblebee movie! But when it comes to client work, Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator are my bread and butter. If I’m doing personal work, I often bounce in between Procreate and HeavyPaint, depending on how much time I want to dedicate to the piece. I love the user-friendly ui of Procreate the most, I was able to pick it up and master it in a few weeks! HeavyPaint is a great app that allows you to paint quickly without worrying too much about details, it’s great for plein air painting for that matter. Additionally, if you’d ever met me in person, there’s a good chance I was holding my sketchbook in hand. I carry a pocket-size Moleskin sketchbook with a few micron pens everywhere I go! It’s the best way to capture anything that inspires me while I’m on the go, and it allows me to further develop drawing skills.

Bella:

Anything exciting coming up/final words of wisdom?

Nico:

I recently started becoming more serious about freelancing versus looking for an in-house job. It’s been quite challenging and scary, alas terrifying, and the road stretches far and wide. I’ve been struggling to find something stable, being an artist is no smooth path. But I try to celebrate any wins, big or small. When I’m feeling like I’m not heading anywhere or that my career is stalling, which happens more often than I’d like, I try to focus on why I decided to pursue art as a career in the first place. Keeping my goals in check, writing stuff down, sketching things and ideas, reading books, connecting with other artists, these have all been some of the ways I’ve been keeping myself from quitting the creative world. If I had any final words of wisdom, it’d be to remember we’re all in our own timeline. There’s no shame in being or feeling like a “late bloomer” in your career, or feeling that you haven’t found your style and you’re falling behind. Stop comparing yourself to others much more ahead in their careers than you, instead, learn from them. Reach out to your heroes, even if not all of them respond you never know who might. You’ll get there, but in your own time. By having trust in the process, and practicing as much as you can every day, things will come your way and doors will start to open. Just have faith and patience in yourself and try to have fun while you can!

Mack Garrison 12/5/23 Mack Garrison 12/5/23

Takeover Tuesday with David Holm

An interview with David Holm: a 2D animation & illustration specialist from Detroit, Michigan.

Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi

Read time: 5min

Bella:

Thanks for joining us for Takeover Tuesday, Dave! Please give the people a lil' introduction!

Dave:

My Name is David Holm and I am an animator/designer at Boxfort, in Detroit Michigan.

Bella:

How did you get into motion design?

Dave:

I went to school for graphic design originally but always wanted to make cartoons and make short films.

The community college at the time didn't have any classes for 2d animation.

But towards my last semester I won a scholarship contest. Which gave me the funds to take a full year of extra classes. So I took Intro to After Effects and Advanced After Effects(taught by Steve Savalle at the time)

And those two classes really helped me use my graphic design and illustration skills in a new way.

Then a year after graduating college in 2012 I landed my first in house studio job as a motion designer!

Bella:

What's the workflow like when mixing 2D and 3D styles together?

Dave:

When I work with mixing 2D and 3D I usually like the 3d elements to ground the 2D animations. So the characters will be all 2D animated but the environment is all made in 3D.

I just think mixing the 2d/3d can give you a really unique look and results. I also really like using glass and reflections to get cool random light leaks.

Bella:

I love me a character made from an inanimate object- big fan of yours. How do you give personality to something that isn't a human?

Dave:

Thank you! I really have a wild imagination that lets me give random objects backstories and wonder how this character/object behaves in an animated world.

Every object in my house has been drawn with a face lol

Dave worked with his pals Gunner to create some animated stickers for a unique mint company called Flintt Mints

Bella:

Do you have a favorite project that you've worked on?

Dave:

My favorite project I've worked on is probably Recess or Half Rez, because we collaborated together to mix a bunch of styles together and made something that felt fresh and unique.

Bella:

Where do you find inspiration?

Dave:

I find inspiration in everyday life. I really benefit from going outside and just watching the plants sway in the wind. And see the wild life thrive and just live around us.

Also bringing a mini sketch book around and using it to do quick idea sketches on the spot.

Bella:

What are you most proud of in your career thus far?

Dave:

What I am most proud of in my career would be probably being able to successfully work as an animator/designer and pursue other hobbies on the side.

Recently I joined my friends band and being freelance lets me be flexible to do both. Also, contributing on the Dash Bash titles this year was a highlight too!

It was a dream project to work with Dash and have it be seen by so many creatives.

*Frame from Recess, a* *Boxfort* *short film.*

Bella:

What's it like working at Boxfort? Do you collaborate often with fellow freelancers?

Dave:

Working at Boxfort has been incredible, we have grown a lot in the last year and we have a lot of new creative energy. We do collaborate a lot by giving each other advice or suggestions. And we are also in the process of creating a handful

of new animated short films. We actually just released an animated short for the new Gunner School. You can check that out here.

Bella:

Do you have any advice for being stuck in a creative rut/how to get out of it?

Dave:

If I get stuck in a creative rut, I usually need to take a break from the screen and all technology. Taking a walk in the woods or a park helps me so much to give myself some clarity and motivation.

Music playlists that are made to get me motivated and stay creative help me a lot too. Also exercise a little will give your brain a boost. We like to play hacky Sack to break up the screen time. It gets your body moving and it's fun!

Bella:

Any final words of wisdom?

Dave:

Final words of wisdom would be to write down your projects/to do lists daily. Sketch ideas out instead of doom scrolling social media. Also, you should set aside a day to not be on the computer at least once a week.

Mack Garrison 11/28/23 Mack Garrison 11/28/23

Takeover Tuesday with Liz Klein DiBello

An interview with Liz Klein DiBello: a Brooklyn based designer, animator and creative director.

Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi

Read time: 5min

Bella:

Thanks for joining us for Takeover Tuesday, Liz! Can you please give us a lil' introduction?

Liz:

Thanks so much for having me in! I’m so happy to be a part of this!

I’m Liz Klein DiBello, and I’m a Brooklyn based designer, animator and creative director.

I come to motion design with a graphic design background, and it’s a part of everything I do. My work has focused on design-based motion projects like network rebrands and broadcast design, commercials and online videos, but has also included projects that focus more on a collage and texture-based approach which lends itself to projects like explainer videos, PSA’s and more.

Also, I just recently joined the incredibly talented team at Mighty Oak full time as Associate Creative Director!

Bella:

How did your career in motion design begin?

Liz:

From a young age I was always interested in anything related to drawing, painting and crafting, so I guess you could say it started there. There was a chest of drawers in my house filled with all sorts of crafting materials: different types of papers, scissors, pastels, crayons, markers and more (this is probably what started my interest in collage). When I got older and my family got their first computer, I got super into Photoshop and discovered graphic design. Later I found out that I could do this as my career, and that’s what made me pursue a design education.

But for motion design specifically, that part of my story started in school. I was going to the School of Visual Arts in New York for Graphic Design, and took Ori Kleiner’s intro to motion class Junior year. Motion design and After Effects was still relatively new at the time, and I loved the idea of bringing design to life and pairing it with music. Ori would show the class so many examples of great titles sequences and introduced us to the process of making motion graphics. I was super inspired by seeing how others were using this new tool. Senior year there was an option to specialize in motion design and I knew it was the right move for me. I decided to do a portfolio class with Ryan Moore.

During school I had always kind of been working, I was always very practical and really wanted to dive right into real life projects. I was interning at Nickelodeon, but I also started taking on a few freelance jobs here and there. One of my first motion design jobs was a book trailer that was all kinetic type, which was trending at the time.

After I graduated, I found my first full time job at The String Theory, a small studio in Manhattan that introduced me to so many different types of projects– anything from broadway commercials, to billboards in Times Square, explainer videos, lyric videos and so much more.

Bella:

With expertise in multiple areas, from illustration to art direction, is there a part of the creative process that you enjoy doing the most?

Liz:

The beginning of the creative process is always my favorite. I like to spend time upfront researching, learning, looking for inspiration, and exploring the different directions a project could go. What I find during this phase can help inform design decisions, and the look and feel of what I’m working on. There’s so much potential during this step.

Bella:

Do you have any advice for other artists trying to go full-time freelance?

Liz:

I have SO many freelance words of wisdom! One big one is that community is super important for many reasons- it will not only keep the jobs flowing, but there’s also an element of support that is there. There’s moments where you might feel isolated because you are flying solo. You’re going to have questions about rates, or the hold system, or maybe you just want to bounce an idea off of someone, but you don’t have co-workers anymore to do that with. Panimation NYC is one of those communities, and Dorca Musseb asked me last year to become an admin. It’s such a great space to provide all of those resources, plus just being a way to meet some genuinely cool people, and I’m happy to be a part of that.

Another piece of advice is boundaries during bookings- define them before you start looking for jobs, and stick to them. For example, how many hours does your rate include, 8, 10? What is your overtime rate, and when does that kick in?

Bella:

Where do you find inspiration? How do you combat creative burnout?

Liz:

Of course I’m constantly inspired by the many talented artists and studios in our community, but I try to look outside of the industry as well so I can get a fresh perspective. Some of the best inspiration can come from a trip I just took, an exhibition that I recently saw at a museum or gallery, or just walking around the streets of New York. Music has also always been a huge inspiration of mine– when I go to a concert, I always look forward to seeing what kinds of graphics are on the screen behind the band and what the merch looks like. Music can have such an impact on how something moves and looks.

Inspiration is also one way to fight burnout. Burnout is so real and so important to acknowledge. It’s important to get ahead of it and realize when it’s starting to happen and what your key signs are. For how to recharge, it’s kind of a balance between just stopping to relax fully physically and mentally, but creatively. For the physical/mental part, doing something away from the computer and devices is pretty key- like a hike in nature, or yoga.

Bella:

Your style is super fun and colorful. What would you tell someone who is trying to "find their own style"?

Liz:

Thank you! I would say to take note of what you enjoy working on the most, and try to do more of that. Your style will naturally evolve from there.

I’d also say my own style is still evolving, it’s a long road! So don’t get discouraged if you don’t have a “style” right away. Sometimes you can only see the pattern in your work by looking back at your past work and seeing the common threads.

Bella:

Do any of the projects you've worked on stand out as a favorite?

Liz:

I don’t know if it gets much better than DOGTV. I had always wanted to work on a network rebrand, and Andrea Pabalan and Darci Manely at thelab nyc approached me to art direct a rebrand for the streaming service.

I should explain that DOGTV is a streaming service for dogs– it keeps them occupied while their pet parents are out of the house, and is actually based on scientific research around reducing stress in dogs. The channel content is actually broadcast in colors that dog’s eyes can see. So it’s a fun project but also serves a helpful purpose.

Our team worked on an entirely new set of assets for the brand that could live on the streaming service, but also in print and digital too. We started with a new logo, typefaces, colors, tone of voice, custom patterns, illustrations, and a brand new photo and footage library. Then we took those elements, and created a new look and feel for the streaming service itself and its content– so everything from bumpers, to transitions and lower thirds, to a sample promo for one of the shows.

We wanted the look and feel to reflect the energetic and unique personalities of dogs, so we went super bold, colorful and poppy. Knowing this was a rebrand for a channel based around dogs, motion was always a huge part of this rebrand and would be something we kept gut checking ourselves against throughout the process. We knew everything we created had to feel like it had the right energy and a playfulness to it.

One of the most fun parts of the project was getting to have a two day photo and live action shoot with over 30 dogs. I made a lot of new furry friends!

Bella:

How do you make yourself stand out among other artists when pitching to a new client?

Liz:

For me it’s not about looking at it as a competition. It’s all about recognizing what you bring to the table and pointing out what makes you and your skills unique, and why and how those things would make the client’s project great. For me, it’s that I can wear many hats- I can design, animate, edit, illustrate, and direct. And I enjoy hopping into all of those roles!

Bella:

What's your proudest moment in your career thus far?

Liz:

I’m really proud of the projects that I work on that give back in some way and use design and animation to serve a greater purpose. I’ve now worked on a few projects that are centered around the importance of elections and voting, a cause that I deeply believe in. I was lucky enough to work on FiveThirtyEight’s The New Bellwethers series, which came out at the time of the 2016 election. Even though the election didn’t pan out as I had wanted, it felt good to be able to contribute to the conversation at that time. Another election based project I’ve gotten to work on recently with Mighty Oak is a spot for NYC Votes. We’re breaking down the process of how to vote to help get more people out there on election day.

And one more bonus proud moment- someone once got a tattoo of a logo that I made. I can’t believe someone liked my design so much that they wanted it with them forever! So that’s definitely up there with my top moments.

*Frame from FiveThirtyEight’s The Bellwethers series.*

Bella:

Are there any projects coming up that you're excited about?

Liz:

Right now I’m working on a series of collage-based videos for IBM, which I’m pretty excited about.

Thank you so much for the invitation again, it means so much to me. I really enjoy reading these interviews and it’s great to be a part of this series!

Mack Garrison 11/21/23 Mack Garrison 11/21/23

Takeover Tuesday with Alejandro Grima

An interview with Alejandro Grima: a freelance art director, motion designer and animator based in Madrid, working for start-ups, companies and agencies around the globe on projects big and small.

Interviewer: Matea Losenegger

Read time: 5min

Matea:

Hello! Thank you for taking time to participate in our series. Can you please introduce yourself and your work?

Alejandro:

Hi there! My name is Alejandro and I’m a Madrid-based motion designer and animator. I was once a jack-of-all-trades graphic designer that worked on digital design, packaging, branding and animation, but 7 years ago I specialized in motion graphics and I’ve been freelancing since.

I’ve been able to work with clients and studios around the globe, and not being restricted geographically and being able to meet people from different backgrounds are some of the things I enjoy the most about freelancing.

When I’m not playing around with keyframes in After Effects, I’m probably discovering new fancy coffee shops, running or taking photos.

Matea:

You have a lot of fun and striking vector work in your portfolio. How did you develop your design style?

Alejandro:

I didn’t really develop a style in a conscious way, I think it has more to do with the evolution of my career: I started out as a branding/digital graphic designer without a proper interest in illustration and maybe that’s how I was initially attached to using simple vectors (also due to the lack of more complex illustration skills). It was later on that I gained interest in more illustrative styles after meeting and working with illustrations, animating their work, and then trying to replicate what they were marvelously doing.

Having said this, I’m really happy that I come from a pure graphic design background, because it allows me to approach each project from a functional point of view and then go for the style that I think should work best. Versatility is key!

*A frame from Alejandro’s Lucidity Tech project.*

Matea:

On a similar note, I really love your logo and 36 days of type animations. Is there a secret sauce in creating precise and effective visuals?

Alejandro:

I would say trusting the process. I usually get to a result animation I’m happy with after following these three steps:

First, planning everything, doing quick sketches or a storyboard to visualize how everything is going to move.
Secondly, work on the movements, nailing the key poses and how every element interact with each other.
And last but not least, spending time working on the timings of every move, because many times a movement lasting ore or a few more/less frames can really make a difference in the end result.

Matea:

You've obviously honed your craft in Adobe Illustrator and After Effects. Are there any plugins or additional software you like to use in your work?

Alejandro:

Way to many, perhaps! But mainly Overlord (which I find crucial to effortlessly bridge between Illustrator and After Effects), and Duik, Key Cloner and Nudge for quicker and precise keyframe tweaking.

Penpal and Anubis also do come in handy.

*Some of Alejandro’s 36 days of Type explorations.*

Matea:

Where do you find inspiration- in and out of the art world?

Alejandro:

In regards to art related stuff, I enjoy going to exhibitions and having a look at anything that has to do with product design and architecture. I even have a dedicated architecture-focused Instagram account because I also love photography and these two subjects collide frequently.

Outside of the arts world, I think what inspires me the most is probably meeting people. I’m a shy person, so it isn’t always easy, but I actively try to push myself out of the comfort zone because I find discovering about other people’s lives, jobs and ways of thinking absolutely enriching.

Matea:

What was your favorite project you've worked on and why does it stand out to you?

Alejandro:

Probably the work I did for Lucidity. I got to learn a lot of really interesting stuff from their team, and they were all a delight to work with. They really know their product and are were able to contribute with interesting ideas while giving me absolute freedom to visualise the information at the same time and could work on some interesting animations and transitions.

Matea:

You've worked with an interesting variety of clients. What's your favorite type of client to work with?

Alejandro:

Definitely the clients that, because of the nature of the project, make you learn new stuff. For example, I worked on a couple of animation explainer videos not too long ago for a blockchain-based technology and a new pharma product, so in order to being able to translate the information into something visual you have to understand well how this technology works and how that medication affects the body. And, by the end of the day, you go to bed with knowing more interesting stuff than when you woke up.

Matea:

How do you fight burnout and stay motivated to create?

Alejandro:

For me, it’s a balance between routine and the unexpected. While exercising and meditation have become keystones of my mental health, I also try to fit as many activities involving new experiences in my schedule as possible. Be it seeing an exhibition, trying a new sport, getting lost around a part of the city you’ve never been to, or trying that fancy new cocktail bar you discovered last week.

Also, special mention to the occasional chatting with my creative friends Vivian, Lucía and Miguel over a cup of coffee. They’re incredibly inspiring people and their insight has got me out of a creative block more times than I can count (thanks guys!).

Matea:

Is there a type of animation you're interested in exploring?

Alejandro:

I’m always trying to learn new stuff but seeing so many talented people doing so many different things on social networks doesn’t really help with the fact that there are only so many hours in a day (ha!). So one can just set priorities, and my current priority is improving my frame-by frame animation skills. After this, I would love to start playing around with code and interactive animations.

*Motion for* *Wearebold* & *Somosmejor’s branding of OEI*

Matea:

Are there any upcoming projects you're excited to share this year?

Alejandro:

As for commissions, I’m particularly excited about the motion identity explorations I’m developing for a couple of design studios here in Spain. And in regards to personal/side projects, I’m working on my first short film that’s allowing me to explore new techniques. All I can say for now is that it’s about museums and some absurd things happening inside them ;)

Mack Garrison 11/11/23 Mack Garrison 11/11/23

Takeover Tuesday Veterans Day Edition with Jeffery Lawson

An interview with Jeffery Lawson: an Art director / Illustrator born and raised in NC who it a bit of a tactile tradesman , lover of all things nature and color.

Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi

Read time: 5min

Bella:

Thanks so much for joining us for Takeover Tuesday, Jeffery! Could you tell us about yourself?

Jeffery:

I am a Veteran, Art Director, Designer, and illustrator born and raised in North Carolina. Most of the work I love making is mixed with fun and a bit of thoughtfulness. I love printmaking and collecting vintage goosebumps books. I am a nature lover and 80’s horror movie aficionado and lover of all things spooky.

Bella:

How did you find your way into motion design? A bit of your background?

Jeffery:

That's a bit of an interesting story! Hold onto your seats, this one's a doozy. My journey into motion design looks like a bit of a treasure map with many points. In the early 2000’s I got started in design learning to be a screen printer and tattoo artist in my local area. Fast forward many moons later I ended up leaving my career in the military and going back to college to be a student.

*A frame from Jeff’s Logitech project with* *Demo Duck*.

Bella:

How was the transition from the military to being a student?

Jeffery:

It was by far one of the most challenging periods in my life. I like to call this my transition phase. My most memorable moment, which was the most challenging, was when I separated from the military on a Friday and Monday morning I was sitting inside a college classroom. It was a complete mental shock not only culturally but mentally as well. Having served in two combat zones made it a little harder given the difference between military life and civilian life. For example, there are strict timelines in the military, and transitioning to civilian life you no longer have those in place and must set them for yourself.

Bella:

What did you learn from being in the military that carries over into your career today?

Jeffery:

There are a few military lessons that I still carry with me but the most important comes from an old army leadership manual. For more about this topic, you can google the 4 c’s of army leadership.

Competence - This means being operationally and technically skilled at what the organization does. When one moves up their understanding of the entire process is far more important than technical skills.
Commitment- This means placing heart and soul not only into the organization but most importantly of all its people. For example, A great leader arrives an hour early and leaves an hour after the last team member clocks out. A committed leader takes the time to learn the habits of each team member and then leads them accordingly.
Candor - This means always being able to be candid at all levels regardless of position. Basically, it means being able to be honest about something regardless of how someone might feel.
Courage - This means having not only physical courage but moral courage to say and do what is right even if one must stand up to someone.

*One of several concepts chosen for a client pitch for Tango Analytics*

Bella:

What do you want to say to those who were in your shoes a few years ago?

Jeffery:

I'd tell them to reference an old proverb that goes like this “Seek and you shall find “. How this relates to your career is as follows.

1- Seek to fill the gap- There's a beautiful video series by Ira Glass that was shared with me called The Gap. In this video, he talks about going through a volume of work to fill the gap between where you are and where you want to be. My interpretation of this is something I always share with my mentees and I want to share it with you. In order to get where you are trying to go you have to fill this imaginary hole with things that are going to make you better. Examples of these things are tutorials, podcasts, lectures, meteors, personal work, feedback, and books.
2- Seek discipline - There's a great book out there that I've read several times called “Discipline Equals Freedom: Field Manual” by Jocko Willink which is essentially the key to filling the gap that I discussed above. The term discipline equals freedom applies to every aspect of your life and if you want more freedom you gotta get more discipline in your life.
3- Seek a village - There's a quote by the motivational speaker Jim Rohan that states that we are the average of the 5 people we spend our time with. My interpretation of this is that during my career so far I've befriended people who share similar values and beliefs as I do but who are also far more talented than me. By seeking a village of people who support you but who can also offer up honest advice it will help you see the chinks in your own armor and make you stronger.

Bella:

What are some of the techniques you use to create the work you do?

Jeffery:

A magician never tells his secrets, am I right? WRONG. To be super transparent I'm all over the place with techniques because I love exploring and experimenting. I will say that I consider myself a tactile tradesman of sorts. I enjoy integrating things that can be done using printed methods or by hand and merging them with digital aesthetics. For example, recently I had the pleasure of creating a title sequence project at Gunner School, and after brainstorming and pitching two directions I settled on one that used scanned-in elements from nature to emphasize the core elements of the movie.

*Art Direction Jeff provided for Prisidio vis* *Demo Duck*

Bella:

Do you have a favorite type of project to work on?

Jeffery:

This question is a bit of a hard one! In general, I have a deep appreciation for mixed media art. My interests span from collage to two-dimensional works and even dabble in a small touch of 3D. My preferred project styles can vary, but there's usually a common thread tying them together, and that's the element of enjoyment. Much of this passion is showcased on my website within a category I've named "TIDBITS," where I explore diverse artistic styles.

Bella:

You mentioned schooling and I see you recently attended Gunner School. What was that like?

Jeffery:

Attending Gunner School was a truly transformative experience. I had the privilege of exploring new ways of animation, thanks to the guidance and support of my peers and mentors. This opportunity encouraged my passion for learning and pushed me to unlock my potential. Through collaboration and hard work, I grew into a more confident and knowledgeable individual. This journey left a lasting impact on my life, opening doors to exciting possibilities and shaping my identity and outlook in profound ways.

Bella:

What are your goals for the next couple of years?

Jeffery:

Career:

1- Full-time employment with studio
2- Explore more creative styles of design
3- Publish a book on creative thinking

Personal:

1- Spend more time with family
2- Nurture more creatives
3- Watch more horror movies

Bella:

Was there ever a time when you didn't think breaking into Motion Design was even possible?

Jeffery:

Indeed, it's important to remember that every profession has its share of highs and lows, and taking that initial step can be quite challenging when embarking on any career journey. In my own experience, after graduating, I initially had a fantastic internship opportunity lined up, but unexpected circumstances threw a wrench in my plans. After this happened, luckily, I had the awesome support of a mentor whom I met through School of Motion to help me navigate such an event. Fast forward 8 months and with this person's help I had built a portfolio.

Bella:

Who are your personal heroes?

Jeffery:

Please bear with me as I share a touching story about my personal hero, Amanda Russell. Amanda is a Creative Director at CREAM Studio, and she is not only a highly accomplished professional but also an exceptional human being. Her boundless compassion has left an indelible mark on me that I try to emulate to others. Countless times, Amanda's unique blend of creativity and kindness has guided me through challenges in my own career that I couldn't have overcome on my own. In addition to her unwavering empathy, she serves as a deep wellspring of inspiration, embodying the qualities I deeply admire and aspire to cultivate in myself. Her steadfast commitment to creativity and the well-being of those around her should serve as a guiding light for anyone seeking a mentor in their career.

Bella:

Who are your personal heroes?

Jeffery:

Eddie: I was in the desert once, out in the middle of nowhere, absolutely nowhere. Just me, the sand, and silence. But if you know what to listen for, it ain’t silent out there. I heard a music out there I never heard before. In the silence. That’s what I’m after, kid. That’s intense. You dig down deep and touch something like that, people are gonna listen. They’ll listen to you because you got something to say! Not just something to show. You understand?

This quote comes from one of my favorite 80s movies called ‘Eddie and the Cruisers”. Sometimes you have to shut out all the noise of the world so you can hear your own internal voice. We all have an internal compass / creative voice we must listen to and when you add in the many distractions of the modern age it can get quite noisy. Enough to the point where you can't even discern what direction you should point your compass.

Mack Garrison 10/31/23 Mack Garrison 10/31/23

Takeover Tuesday with André Leite

An interview with André Leite: a motion designer and pizza lover from Brazil, currently living in Lisbon, Portugal.

Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi

Read time: 5min

Bella:

Thanks so much for joining us for Takeover Tuesday, Andre! Could you please give us a lil' intro?

André:

Hey there! I'm André Leite, a creative motion designer, punk rock enthusiast, and pizza lover, originally from Brazil, but currently rocking it in Lisbon, Portugal.

Bella:

How did your career in the motion industry start?

André:

This a long one…before diving into Motion, I went through various "fun" jobs. I worked at a skate shop, a tattoo studio, and also organizing music shows in Fortaleza (my hometown). By chance, in 2008, a friend invited me to work at a local TV network that only played music videos. I've always had a passion for videos and music, so when I saw the editing suites there, I thought to myself, "This is where I belong, sitting in the air conditioning (Fortaleza is crazy hot!) and editing MTV style segments - this is perfect!”

After learning how to edit, I started watching Andrew Kramer's videos and gradually transitioned from editing to VFX. I dived deeper into my studies through tutorials and books. In other words, I was completely self-taught on this journey.

I then began working at commercial production companies, where, in addition to editing and VFX, I was also required to animate texts, icons, packshots,

transitions, and more. It was there that I discovered the magical world of animation. Although I sometimes worked 14-18 hours a day and even slept several nights on an air mattress in the editing suite, I can say that this period was an intensive After Effects course. I faced all sorts of challenges and never had enough time. I struggled a lot, but I also learned a great deal.

After working some years at the top video production companies in Fortaleza, I moved to São Paulo, the land of opportunities. If you stand still for too long on street corner in São Paulo, a job might just fall and hit your head. After a while, throught networking, agencies and studios were constantly calling me to create explainer videos, which I loved because I found working with animation is much more enjoyable than VFX. I became a freelancer and never looked back. After a few of years, I wanted to challenge myself so, I bought "The Animator's Survival Kit" and focused my studies on character animation. And that's what I continue to do to this day.

Bella:

With over 10 years of experience in the industry, how do you feel it has changed over time?

André:

Definitely, the amount of information and softwares is crazy now! Back when I started was challenging to find study materials, especially for those who didn't speak English. It was very rare to come across another motion designer. Nowadays, if you open a pack of cereal, you might even find a motion designer as prize…

Motion design has become incredibly popular. Every client wants or already has a motion video for their company. With each passing day, there is new information and techniques to study. At the same time, I really feel motion design has evolved into a vast international community, where practically anyone can participate, whether they're working in the field or simply appreciating the work. And events such as OFFF or Dash Bash really help to consolidate this sense of Community.

Bella:

What's the animation scene like in Portugal? Are your clients mostly there or do you find yourself working more internationally?

André:

When I arrived here in 2017, I was primarily working for the Portuguese market. It was great! I made a lot of networking connections, friends, and learned a lot. However, Portugal is a small country, and there aren't many clients with big budgets. So, gradually, I started seeking international clients to not solely depend on the local market. In my case, nowadays, I would say that I work 25% for Portugal and 75% overseas.I believe the studios here are doing the same, increasingly looking for international clients.

An undeniable fact about Portugal is the abundance of talent—there's truly a lot of it! However, when these talents are unable to work remotely, they often move to countries that offer better pay. Overall, I feel that with each passing year, the motion community in Portugal is stronger and more competitive.

Bella:

What's your process like for animating characters? What's your favorite thing about character animation?

André:

I'm a rebel who likes to do everything within After Effects, including the illustration, if possible. And I stick to the basic principles of animation.

I normally start by creating simple key poses, sometimes using "stick paths" just to understand what kind of rig I'll need. Once I have a simple rig for the character, I begin animating the in-between frames, and only then do I add details like lighting, shadows, and textures. I usually leave the animation of the head/face for last, I'm not sure why, probably it's just a habit.

Without a doubt what I enjoy the most is the challenge of always doing something new, either animating different art styles or trying out a new character movement that I've never done before. It constantly requires me to put my brain to work, figuring out how to achieve it, and it never gets boring.

Bella:

You've worked in so many different fun styles. Is there one you enjoy the most?

André:

To be honest, I don't have a preferred style, I simply enjoy animating. Nowadays, I have been able to choose

my projects with more aesthetic consideration, which is great! In the past, I animated numerous stock image characters, but now I tend to collaborate with illustrators who have their own unique style. In addition to character animation, I'm particularly drawn to animating technology videos in a UX/UI style, with all that gradients and abstract shapes, I love it!

*Gif from the “Make your Flag Green” project.*

Bella:

Is there a project you've worked on that stands out as a favorite to you?

André:

Yes! I’ve a project that is very dear to me, and surprisingly, it's a video without any characters. What makes me love this video so much is that it was created from scratch - script to final video by myself, my wife, and my former business partner— a very small team. We had limited time and resources, but it was a lot of fun to work on and it gained quite a lot of views on social media.

Here's the link for anyone who wants to check it out.

Bella:

When you find yourself in a creative rut, how do you get out of it? What or who inspires you?

André:

Well, I strive to remain in a perpetual state of motion, keeping myself updated both online and in the so-called "real world," although who knows if we're already in the Matrix after all these AI advancements. I go to museums, concerts, and industry conferences to seek

inspiration too. Sometimes, I observe people, like people riding bicycles on the streets, and that becomes a source of inspiration for animating a character. I’ve always been very observant, so be careful not to become a reference in my work!

Bella:

What's the proudest moment in your career thus far?

André:

The first time I worked for a major studio outside of Brazil I really felt like I had broken a barrier. After opening that door, international clients started coming one after another, leading to cooler projects, working with big teams and renowned brands.

Bella:

Any final words of advice or projects coming up this year that you're excited about you'd like to share?

André:

Firstly, I would like to thank Dash for the invitation and acknowledge this initiative that, in my opinion, adds a lot to our community. Thank you!! \o/

A piece of advice for everyone starting in this field is to remember that it's not enough to master all the software. We must realize that a significant part of the work is communication. Often, the biggest challenge is understanding what the client truly wants and finding the best way to convey the message. Sometimes, it's something simple, yet powerful. What I mean is that having good communication with your client is more

valuable than spending nights trying to create something overly complex that isn't what the client desires but rather what you want.

Recently, I was invited to animate Colonel Sanders from KFC, which was awesome, because he is such a recognizable character. It was a super complex photo-collage project, but at the same time, a lot of fun. We are still working on the Behance page, but here is the final video. I hope you enjoy it:

Mack Garrison 10/17/23 Mack Garrison 10/17/23

Takeover Tuesday with Elyse Kelly

An interview with Elyse Kelly: a filmmaker who unites the unique characteristics of animation with documentary storytelling.

Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi

Read time: 5min

Bella:

Hi Elyse! Thanks so much for taking the time to join us on a Tuesday Takeover. For those who aren’t familiar with you or your work, could you tell us about yourself?

Elyse:

Hi! Thanks for having me. It's an honor to be in such good company with this series.

I'm a director based in Washington DC, as well as the founder of Neon Zoo. I'm best known for my work in the documentary world, but I've done a little bit of everything at this point in my career. Regardless of genre, what I love most is giving a platform to unexpected and untold stories.

I also teach animation at Georgetown University, which I'm told by my partner is my one true love when it comes to anything career related. Who knew!

Bella:

How did your career begin? Did you always know you wanted to be in the motion design industry?

Elyse:

To be honest, I don't know if I would consider myself to be in the motion design industry even now! I'm more of a "floater" (that's definitely going to read weird) between a bunch of different industries in our entertainment/media world.

I did always know that I wanted to work in animation though. Not to age myself... but I fell in love with animation after seeing the 1990 re-release of The Jungle Book in theaters. It totally amazed me to think that grownups could make cartoons for a living. What more could you ask for?

Of course, my journey to get where I am now was anything but linear, and includes everything from mocapping robots to cheesemongering and everything in between. But looking back on it all, it's amazing to think that I essentially achieved my childhood dream.

Bella:

Tell us about your full-service animation studio, Neon Zoo!

Elyse:

Neon Zoo is a little over a year old now! But really it's much older than that in practice--it was a natural next step to the work I'd already been doing for years, which is directing/producing projects with the most creatively talented and joyful artists you could hope to work with. Definitely make sure to check out our portfolio to see all their credits--hire them, befriend them, and hug them for me if you live in the same city! I have too many Zoom friends... but now I'm rambling.

Building off of my work in the documentary world, our focus at the studio is to create both "impact-driven and artistically-minded content for film, television and the web." If we can use our skills to help uplift communities and important messages, that's where we're interested in spending most of our time.

In addition to that, we're continuing to invest in our community by supporting teammates in telling their own stories. We have a number of projects in development that range from very personal short docs to surreal narrative series to interdisciplinary productions. It's early days for a lot of them, but I can't wait to share them with you all.

Bella:

The motion design industry is full of folks who have extensive schooling and none at all. Do you feel like getting a Masters Degree in Animation and Digital Arts helped a bunch? Would you recommend higher-education for other folks?

Elyse:

Don't do it! Haha. I'm joking. Kind of.

I talk about this a lot with my students who oftentimes feel that they'll be at a disadvantage in the industry for not attending an art or film school. But there are so many different angles to approach a career in our field, especially if you want to direct. And the skills you use most in those roles aren't the ones you "learn" in school: good communication (see every relationship), effective sales (cheese shop), and compassionate leadership (real estate firm).

Grad school is a huge financial commitment; you can't quite wrap your brain around it when you're younger, or at least I couldn't. So what I would say is think about what you're looking to get out of a formal education: is it skills? Contacts? Time? If you have the means and feel that it's worth the cost (in all senses of the word), go for it. But if it's not for you, that's ok. There are definitely alternative places to learn, and build your community.

And while I don't think grad school was necessarily the right fit for me, I did meet lifelong friends and creative partners that I'll always carry with me. That wasn't my "goal" going in, but it's definitely not something I would trade.

Also, I did learn one CRITICAL lesson in grad school: YOU DON'T HAVE TO ANIMATE ON 1s?! (shoutout to Sara Spink and Willie Williams! IYKYK).

*Frame from “Johnny’s Home” - a 2018 Annecy Selection.*

Bella:

You have a super impressive resume of clients (Netflix, the ACLU, Sony Music, etc.) as well as awards (Emmy, Webby, Addy, etc)! Tell us a little bit about that.

Elyse:

It always sounds so fancy when you line everything up together. What I'll say is that I've been incredibly lucky to have worked for and with incredibly talented people--clients who trust us to bring their stories to life, and artists who pour their hearts into every project that we do. All of that comes through in the work.

Bella:

You are an amazing storyteller and all of the work you’ve directed evokes such emotion. Where do you find inspiration for the stories you tell?

Elyse:

That means a lot. Thanks so much.

The inspiration always comes from the people featured in the work. That's definitely true with documentary projects, but applies to my other work as well. I start by asking the basic questions, "Who is this person? What is their story?" You can tell a lot about someone by the way they tell their own story--their tone, when they pause, what makes them cry (and sometimes more importantly what doesn't). As a director, it's my job to figure out how to translate that in the most authentic way possible. Being the custodian of someone else's story is a lot of responsibility, and not one that I take lightly. Every creative decision is made not just in service of "the art", but with that person and their experience in mind--they are my audience and end game. If I can ensure that our work connects with and respects those people, anything else is just icing.

Bella:

How do you get yourself out of a creative rut?

Elyse:

Great question. I feel like I'm continuing to evolve my approach to this. One thing that I'm working to be better at is giving myself the time and space to just "be". There's a lot of pressure as a creative to always be doing, making, creating. I've found that I'm most creative after I've taken time for myself, even if it's just a walk around the neighborhood. It's obvious, but definitely a lesson I keep reminding myself of. I've also learned over the years not to put too much pressure on having to make "my own" work. We pour so much of ourselves into everything we do, including client work, that sometimes that's enough for me to be creatively fulfilled. Plus those client projects help me flex my creative muscles while giving space to simmer on all the personal stuff that I'm excited about.

Bella:

What’s your favorite thing about being a director?

Elyse:

My team. Day in and day out. Their passion and insane talents inspire me, drive me to be better, and really make this job worth it. And to go back to the previous question, definitely help pull me out of those creative ruts!

Bella:

As someone with over 15 years of experience in the industry, where do you think the future of the motion design industry is headed? And how is it already different now than it was 15 years ago?

Elyse:

This is a big one. It reminds me of the classic, "Where do you want to be in five years?" interview question that was always so stressful to answer.

We're definitely at a crossroads in a lot of respects across the entire animation and media industry--insane technology advancements, unionizations, the further commercialization of art, the continued fight to bring more diversity to the table, etc. It can feel like a lot, so instead of a prediction, what I would say is that we need to keep pushing. Pushing for spaces like this that champion unique voices and honest conversations, pushing to give anyone and everyone the opportunity to tell their stories, pushing this artform forward because of the love we have for it. It's been a weird few years, and as cheesy as it sounds we need to continue investing in ourselves and our community because no one else is going to do it for us.

Either that, or we all just escape to one of those Italian villages they've been giving away for free. Who's with me?!

Bella:

Any final advice/takeaways?

Elyse:

I've already talked too much! Thanks for listening.

("Applications" for Italy will be opening soon.)

Mack Garrison 10/3/23 Mack Garrison 10/3/23

Takeover Tuesday with Jordan Knight

An interview with Jordan Knight: a multi-media designer, animator, illustrator who has worked with clients all over the commercial, social media, and entertainment world.

Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi

Read time: 5min

Bella:

Thanks for joining us for Takeover Tuesday, Jordan! Can you please introduce yourself?

Jordan:

Hi! I’m Jordan Knight, I’m a motion designer based out of Brooklyn but originally from upstate New York and I’ve worked as a freelancer for the majority of my career. I am also queer, I like to bike (as a commuter mostly), love a painting exhibit (late 19th century is my favorite), and I also have a pet snake.

Bella:

How did you get into the motion design world?

Jordan:

In school I had much more patience for art and drawing than any other subject, and I loved movies. So animation felt like a convenient way to mix both of my interests. I went to SCAD for an animation degree and when I was 90% of the way through I took an intro class for After Effects and only learned then about motion design. I thought there was so much more room to grow as an experimental designer in that industry, which I eventually realized was such a huge priority for me in my own creative process. So I made the choice to switch gears after graduation. It took a few transitional years of working as a graphic designer for bodegas and bars, as a studio manager for a small agency, and then slowly working on my after effects confidence on the side to get to a point where I felt I was ready to try taking on a freelance job. I made a lot of mistakes, but I learned a lot in that process and I think I grew the most in my skills as an artist, as a professional, and as a person, by taking that leap into freelance.

Bella:

Do you have any advice for other artists who are trying to go full-time freelance?

Jordan:

This is sort of advice for anyone, not just freelancers, but don’t have any shame about sounding stupid when it comes to asking questions. Books and blogs are great resources, but building real life connections to talk about rates, contracts, new technologies, is going to be your most valuable resource throughout your career. I’ve learned so much about technique and insider tips by asking other artists out for coffee, going to workshops, and community events. As a freelancer staying organized is also extremely important. Keep track of your invoices, your contacts, emails, projects, backups of those projects. Life is so much less of a headache when you know where to find everything. This advice comes from some of my biggest mistakes throughout my early career, so set up goals and learn early, and keep learning to stay relevant and engaged with the industry. Oh, and taxes are just so much easier with an accountant, it’s worth it and a write-off.

Bella:

As a multi-media designer, you have mad skills in multiple different areas. Is there a certain area you prefer to work in? Like animation over design or directing, vice versa?

Jordan:

I’m very much a conceptual thinker so I do typically prefer to spend the most thought and care in the design department. Unfortunately, advertising hasn’t always allowed for that kind of time and money so I often use a lot of my down time to explore design techniques and style.

Bella:

Where do you find inspiration?

Jordan:

This is where living in NYC really has its perks. We really have some of the most amazing museums in the world. A couple of my most frequented include Poster House, and of course the MET. Walking down most New York streets is an absolute advertising vortex of posters, video installations, stickers, murals, made by incredibly talented artists. I’m also really big on Sci-fi and horror films so older special effects really have a soft spot in my heart. A couple years ago I bought a bunch of Heavy Metal magazines from the 70s-90s and I absolutely love the variety of illustration work in there and always look back to find cool drawing inspiration. Lately just a shadow hitting the sidewalk in a strange way will spark my interest and I’ll wonder if I could distort it, stack it, cut it up and collage it, and find use for it in a design.

Bella:

How does your creative process for client work differ from the process for a personal project?

Jordan:

I think professionally as an animator I’m very outcome oriented. I have a deadline, a structure, and a good sense for how I am expected to execute in a timely manner. My own projects are much more chaotic and I often don’t know what I’m making until I’m surrounded by scraps of doodled on papers, made three new pinterest boards, and bought a new stupid thing on ebay that I’ve convinced myself is the answer to all my creative blocks. But it works for me!

Bella:

I love the collage style that you've used in several projects. What's the best way to approach animation for this style?

Jordan:

My biggest focus is making something digital look tactile and handmade. I have TONS of stockpiled textures that come in handy for this and I often make many of my own. I’ve got probably ten different saved expressions for giving a gritty stop motion feel that I use interchangeably. I also think starting the design process by hand and then finding a way to adapt digitally second allows me to be more expressive in the initial stages and leaves me more room to explore what sort of motion would work best with a specific style.

Bella:

What would you say to someone who is trying to "find their style?"

Jordan:

Frankly I can’t even confidently say I’ve found my own, and I may never commit to just one. I think I feel very comfortable with that. Some people really find a style that works for them and that's great. I don’t think finding a style is always necessary. It certainly has benefits as a freelancer to brand yourself to a type of work but I’m definitely a person who loves exploring different mediums. Although I’ve sort of been known for my collage work I am definitely constantly evolving that style into something different. So my advice is just make what you want to make, whether you want to stick to one style or not, that decision will come later and it will come organically.

Bella:

I'm sure it's difficult to choose, but do you have a favorite project you've been a part of?

Jordan:

I had a lot of fun working on Paris Hilton’s documentary. While I was animating on that I shared a coworking space with Miguel Hernandez, the illustrator on the project, and we had such a blast working together. He had me help out with illustration tasks, which isn’t a skill I often get to flex as primarily an animator, but I had so much fun with it. Every week he’d lend me a ton of art books and graphic novels from his collection that I’d spend every night absolutely devouring, so I got to learn a lot in that time on and off the project. Even when deadlines were tight and overwhelming, Miguel made the process fun and easy.

I also found out later that I had indirectly worked alongside my current partner, an assistant editor on the project, who I hadn’t officially met until two years after the release. So shout out to Paris Hilton for the matchmaking.

*One of the scene’s from the Paris Hilton Documentary Jordan worked on.*

Bella:

Any projects that you're excited about?

Jordan:

I just finished up a really fun project with the absolutely wonderful team at Mighty Oak: NYC Votes!

Also keep an eye out on my instagram @jjknightart for more work!

Mack Garrison 9/12/23 Mack Garrison 9/12/23

Takeover Tuesday with Tom Van Deusen

An interview with Tom Van Deusen an animator and visual designer living in New York City.

Interviewer: Matea Losenegger

Read time: 5min

Matea:

Hey Tom! Thanks for lending your time. Can you please tell us a little about yourself?

Tom:

Thank you! I'm a visual designer and animator based out of New York City. I like to write and draw comics too. I have a cat named Spooky. I'm currently a Senior Motion Designer at a large media company. My favorite color is #CD9704..

Matea:

What is your background and how did you wind up in the motion design world?

Tom:

I grew up loving to write and draw, glued to the television during the golden age of deranged, socially irresponsible cartoons of the mid-90s. My mom was an art teacher and was fully encouraging of all my creative pursuits. I'll never forgive her. I earned a BFA in 2008 and entered the workforce fabulously ill-suited for a global recession.

Over the subsequent 11 years I worked a lot of interesting jobs, from Network Control Center Technician to Financial Operations Analyst. Very interesting. At night I did freelance illustration and wrote hundreds of pages of comics. I have some books that got published that are really screwing up my SEO.

Anyhoo, at the age of 33 I went back to school for graphic design at the advice of several designer friends who sensed how thoroughly miserable I was. There's a great program they had attended called the Seattle Creative Academy. I learned visual design, UX/UI, packaging and a bit of motion.

I had enough motion footage by graduation to put together a reel. I applied to oodles of jobs and got an offer for a visual design job and a motion design job the same week. It was then that I made the difficult decision to take the one that paid a lot better.

It’s Tom!

Matea:

Do you still use traditional mediums, and do you think it's important for digital artists to flex those more 'tactile' muscles?

Tom:

I was a bit of a luddite in my art-making before going back to school. I drew my comics with a dip pen and Rapidograph. I poo-pooed those who drew on digital tablets, knowing that I was making something physical that will be celebrated by future generations.

Now I'm drawing mostly digitally, and there will be less stuff for my grandchildren to throw into a landfill. I still draw on paper sometimes, but usually just sketches or life drawing. I feel very good about myself when I tap the paper with two fingers to undo before I realize I actually need to use my eraser. My goal is to have my life's work be inaccessible when I stop paying for Creative Cloud.

Matea:

Congratulations on cooking up a spicy new reel! It's a process many of us dread, but yours turned out great. What would you say goes into creating a compelling one?

Tom:

Thank you very much! I've made a lot of stuff over the past years and it was difficult to pare it down and objectively look at it. To make a good reel I'd say takes watching YouTube videos on how to make a good reel. It was also extremely helpful to get feedback from a lot of other, talented motion designers such as yourself. It's hard to tell what's garbage when everything is your precious baby. Sometimes your precious baby is garbage.

Matea:

It was a really cool idea to incorporate footage of NYC in the opening and close. Has living in the city affected your work at all?

Tom:

Thanks! I moved here from Seattle about a year ago to be closer to family and because my job is in Manhattan. I wanted to incorporate some real-life video footage in addition to my animation, and filmed some stuff on my phone. Because I'm in NYC, those shots are footage of NYC.

As far as influence, I love drawing dense urban areas, and there's a lot of that here. I'd love to find a screen printing co-op in the city to print some of those drawings, so if anyone knows of one in the city please let me know!

Matea:

You have such a playful yet striking illustration style. How would you describe your creative voice and what was the process in developing it?

Tom:

That's very kind. I'm definitely a product of alternative comics. That was the "scene" I was in for a very long time. Over the years I simplified my drawings, replacing fussy cross-hatching with flat colors. I also love children's book illustration. Over the years I've been lucky enough to know a lot of talented artists and illustrators, and I'm sure I'm cribbing some of their styles. Or let's just call it osmosis, for legal reasons.

Matea:

In a similar vein, where do you find inspiration?

Tom:

I hate to say the internet, but nowadays there's such easy access to amazing artwork on the internet that I have to say the internet. I hated saying that. I've also gone to a lot of incredible museums and gallery shows in the city, and it's impossible to not be inspired by those. And usually some crazy idea will pop into my head that's funny to me, and it will make me laugh aloud in public. Not sure how or why that happens, but I wish it would stop.

Matea:

If budget and time weren't constraints, what would be your dream project to work on?

Tom:

I'd love to make an animated short based on the comic that I'm working on. It's currently about a duck and an alligator, but will soon include a snake, a mouse and a giraffe. I have a lot written for it but can barely find the time to draw it into a comic. I'm currently drip-feeding it onto my Instagram. The good news is that it's zero budget and nobody cares how long it takes me.

Matea:

Do you have any wisdom for aspiring creatives and what do you wish you had known when you first started out?

Tom:

You have to live a life to do anything creative. Don't fret if you think everyone else has their nose down at their Cintiq while you're drinking White Claws on the beach. You can't make art in a vacuum, and life's short. Enjoy it.

*One of the scene’s from Tom’s recent comic.*

Matea:

Do you have any upcoming projects you're excited to share with the world?

Tom:

I'm actually very excited by that comic I'm working on, even though my productivity doesn't always match that excitement. I'm having fun drawing it, and since it's a personal project that's the important part.

Mack Garrison 8/29/23 Mack Garrison 8/29/23

Takeover Tuesday with Nick Fairbanks

An interview with Nick Fairbanks a freelance illustrator and animator living in Atlanta, Georgia.

Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi

Read time: 5min

Bella:

Nick! Thanks again for joining us for Takeover Tuesday. Can you please give us a lil' intro to let the people know who you are and what you do?

Nick:

Hi! The name’s Nick. I’m a freelance illustrator and animator living in Atlanta, Georgia. I mostly work in the startup and tech world but I’m trying to break into editorial work and children’s books.

Bella:

How'd you get into illustration and animation?

Nick:

I got my degree in documentary filmmaking at Florida State University. I had to learn After Effects and really loved it. I had some intricately animated sequences in a documentary I was working on and it impressed a classmate who had a startup company. He hired me to create an animated explainer for their product and was willing to pay $800 which was a lot for me at the time. I had always drawn things, but as I worked on the animated explainer, I learned about Dribbble and Pinterest and became exposed to the world of tech art. By the time I graduated, I was working for the startup company and had pivoted my career goals towards tech illustration.

Bella:

Your style is unique and I've always been a big fan because it looks like it belongs in a book or magazine. What advice do you have for people trying to "find" their style?

Nick:

It’s incredibly hard to create a style that is truly your own. You don’t have to scroll that far back in my feed to see that the way I draw has changed a lot over the years as my influences have changed. But the art we make will always be influenced by those we look up to and that has to be okay. For me, it’s people like Oliver Jeffers, Vincent Mahe, Tom Hugonaut, Miroslav Sasek, Robinson, Quentin Blake. It’s important to keep in mind that there are two components to style: 1. the way you create art and 2. the stories you tell. Be conscious of what you’re taking from others and what you’re contributing that is your own. Find a balance that allows you to sleep comfortably at night. As far as actionable advice, the most common theme in art is people. So draw a janitor, a politician, a florist etc. Draw lots of people and then ask yourself, what would a car look like that this person would drive? What would their house look like? Build out the world in your style, starting with people.

Bella:

Where do you find inspiration?

Nick:

The most interesting things have some truth in them so I try to pull inspiration from the places I go and people I meet. I always keep a little notebook I can fit in my back pocket and write down the things I see and the thoughts they prompt as they happen.

Bella:

Can you tell us a bit about your website, aportraitof.info?

Nick:

My Grandmother passed in 2021 and while I had plenty of photos, I had only one video. It prompted me to think how nice it would have been to have a long form video of her, and even better if she was answering deep, thought provoking questions. I created A portrait of as a way to do just that. I’ve filmed about a dozen so far and while it’s emotionally rewarding, it is very time consuming. I don’t advertise it much anymore, but if people reach out and want me to do it for their family, I’m always happy to do it. I may pick it back up more seriously in the future, but it's too far removed from my larger goals to warrant dedicating time to.

Bella:

What's the process like for managing your own Etsy shop?

Nick:

I initially wanted to print, pack, and ship all my own work. I sold out of 40 prints in a few days which was really encouraging, but the process was taxing. As of right now, I just offer digital downloads so that people can print them however they want. I’m thinking a lot about passive income, so I’ll keep the store as is for now, but I will be looking into working with a printing company soon who can handle all that for me.

Bella:

How has your random mug drawing series on Instagram been helping you combat creative block? Is there anything else you like to do when you feel stuck?

Nick:

Yeah, it’s been really helpful! I actually draw the first thing I pull from the list. I was spending way too much time thinking about what people would want and it was stifling my ability to create. If I don't want to draw something from that list, I go on long walks and don’t come home until I have something clear in my head.

Bella:

Some of your advice on the gram is to try to "create something every day that makes you want to call your mom and tell her about it." (amazing advice btw). What's something you've worked on recently that made you want to tell your mom about it?

Nick:

My mom is my biggest supporter so she sees most of my work on IG before I get around to telling her about it. That aside, I was excited to tell her about a side project I spun up, creating animated portraits of creatives I interviewed while traveling around Europe and Asia a few months ago. I only shared a small portion of our conversation on social media but she wanted to hear about the whole thing.

Bella:

You've got a pretty big social media following (100k followers WOO)! Any advice for people trying to get noticed and share their work on social media?

Nick:

For context, I’ve been sharing my art on IG for 9 years. 8 months ago, I had a following of 5,000 or so. The cityscapes went sort of viral and propelled my following to what it is now, and I’ve been hovering around 100 for the last 3 months. So the bulk of followers came in about 4 months. But here’s what I’ve learned:

1. People love to travel. My cityscapes remind people of where they’ve been or where they want to go. People are always sharing it or tagging their friends. Anything that has to do with travel is going to increase your chances of it performing well.

2. People love to love. Create content around relationships or love. If you can strike that chord, reminding people of someone they love, or loved, it will perform well.

3. Elevate your work with animation. It doesn’t have to be anything major. Most of the animation I incorporate is really subtle and simple to execute. But it performs better on average than a static post.

4. It has to be either really strong stylistically, or really strong conceptually.

Look at something you’ve made and ask yourself, “Why would a stranger care about this or want to share it with their friend?”

Bella:

Anything you're looking forward to working on/doing in the future?

Nick:

I’m ALMOST done with a Skillshare course on how to draw my cityscapes [Update it’s live!]. I’ve been talking about it for months and should be publishing it in the next 2-3 weeks. After that, I’ll be working on my website and try to make a real career out of freelancing.

Mack Garrison 8/14/23 Mack Garrison 8/14/23

Takeover Tuesday with Jardley Jean-Louis

An interview with Jardley Jean-Louis an NYC born multi-disciplinary artist living and working in Queens.

Interviewer: Matea Losenegger

Read time: 5min

Matea:

Hey Jardley! Thanks for lending us your time. Can you please introduce yourself?

Jardley:

Hey! I’m Jardley Jean-Louis, I’m an NYC born multi-disciplinary artist living and working in Queens. I work in illustration, animation and film and center my work on depicting stillness, education, and under-represented identities and subjects.

Matea:

What inspired you to become an artist and how did you get into the motion design space?

Jardley:

It’s funny, I’ve been an artist since I was a kid and was going to say nothing inspired me because this is how it’s been forever. But I have a memory of being really young and there being a boy who was a really great artist in the class, me aspiring to be that good and taking him on as my mentor. So, that kid and my perseverance to get really good.

In terms of motion design, I think in the back of my head while I was pursuing just art, I wanted to get into the animation space. As a kid that meant the goal of having my own show on Nickelodeon and a film for Disney when I grew up, and later and more concretely, learning more about motion design as an Illustrator’s Assistant for a one-person animation studio while in college. That was my first art job. While my role there was to produce character/background design, the CD also invited me into the depths of script-writing, storyboarding, and animating background characters. Getting that well-rounded experience and seeing the final animation which felt like magic to me, was enough to start me on my own journey of honing my animation skills and looking for my own clients.

Matea:

How would you describe your artistic style and what are some key themes and messages that you explore in your work?

Jardley:

My work is very character driven and intent on building a mood especially with lights and shadows. I also without intending to, use a lot of deep rich colors. I work digitally these days, but my work has been described as painterly - which is great to hear because my foundation is in traditional painting and drawing. So, that’s unintentionally translated.

The key themes and messages I explore in my work are quiet life moments that speak to the reality of life, education, and under-represented identities and subjects.

Matea:

Can you walk us through your creative process? How do you come up with new ideas and what techniques do you use to bring them to life?

Jardley:

On both client and personal work - the creative process is dictated by the brief or idea and what mood and feeling the work is trying to convey. On client projects I’m zero-ing in on the themes and message the client has shared with me and the key words in the script that define each scene. On personal projects, I have an idea and I’m looking to draw it out through thinking of what type of composition and lighting accentuates it.

An exercise I do is dump every idea (including a ridiculous idea) onto my notebook. I believe that writing every single idea, not criticizing it, and therefore dismissing it, frees your mind to be more creative and find its way to a strong concept. If you’re constantly cutting an idea off at its legs, you won’t feel safe enough to explore and trust you’ll find an idea.

I then work through concepts by sketching them out and writing questions I have for myself. I find the notes especially stimulating.

I also review my long list of Flickr reference images and spend a lot of time on Behance looking for inspo.

Matea:

How different is your approach to client work vs your personal projects?

Jardley:

Well with client work it involves more pre-production than I do in my personal projects. That involves deciphering the script or brief and providing tangible materials such as moodboards, sketches, style frames or mockups, and storyboard animatics. In my own work I do less of that - the tangible materials. I’m typically holding an idea and composition in my head. I’ll look at a ton of reference images and then go straight into creating it in photoshop or after effects when the pieces feel right. For both, I also am finding the color scheme while I’m working - most times I have an idea of colors, but it’s not settled until I’m working on it.

However, since my recent solo exhibition, I’ve started to see the reason for sketches in my own personal projects. It helps to remind you of what the composition is meaning to be and by having it out on the paper, you’re able to see if it’s working or not rather than just going straight to final. Finding out the imagined concept didn’t work bit me in the ass one or twice on this solo.

Matea:

Huge congratulations on your recent solo exhibition "Joy - This Place I Land." What was that experience like and are you interested in working on more gallery work?

Jardley:

Thank you! The experience was incredible, I’m glad. I was selected as a ARTWorks Fellow for Jamaica Center for the Arts and Learning’s 10 month residency and the solo exhibition came from that.

So it was a 10 month process of figuring out what scenes best represented my theme: what does joy and thriving look like in everyday life. Especially being Black.

Originally I had 6 pieces + an animation I planned, but upon revisiting the gallery space and seeing how much space I had, I added 2 more illustrations. Getting to show what joy is for me, which is really just love in life moments and witnessing how much it resonated with folks meant a lot to me.

I’m not really interested in becoming a gallery artist. I’ll have my work in shows here and there as long as it makes sense to me. Same for residencies. I’m not actively pursuing either. I view it as avenues that are available to me as a creative. Never just confined to one avenue.

Matea:

I know it's difficult to choose, but do you have a favorite piece in the show and what makes it stand out in your mind?

Jardley:

I have two pieces that stand out for me. “Heritage” for its family ties, warmth and sense of just belonging and “To Be With Friends.” for all the love, lightness, and thriving I continually want for my life.

Matea:

Where do you get inspiration? Are there any particular artists or movements that have impacted your work?

Jardley:

I get inspired everywhere. Walking around and looking at things, overhearing conversations, being with people, looking at the work of fellow creatives, taking in my apartment, processing my life, tv shows/films.

Artists that heavily impact my work are Rebecca Mock and Katharine Lam. Particularly for creating a mood and for their use of lighting. Also Pat Perry, for the still and simple moments of life.

Matea:

How do you stay motivated to create your own work in addition to client projects? Do you have any tips for burnout?

Jardley:

I won’t say that I consistently create my own work and do so alongside client projects successfully. I don’t have a routine. Sometimes it happens that it’s a particularly slow time so I have room for my own work, or there’s an idea I want to get out, or mentally I’m in a space to put the work in and things just flow then. I try to honor where I’m at. I guess I stay motivated because producing client work isn’t my end goal for my career. I want the ratio to skew wherein majority of the time, the work I’m producing is mine. It’s what I’m known for and it’s how I make a living. I still plan on working with clients, but I think my voice and creative project being the end goal is more fulfilling.

For burnout, my tip is to honor it as best you can. When I was a permalancer, that meant speaking up that I was taking some mental health days for myself. When I’ve been working non-stop on client work that means taking as much time as I can in between client work. If I’m on deadline, but am already burnt out and a concept isn’t coming or my brain is frying, I try to take chunks of time during the day to just chill out. Honor it as best you can.

Matea:

Any upcoming projects you're excited about?

Jardley:

I recently wrapped up an animation where I was the illustrator on it which I’m excited to see in its final. It’s about the stained foundation of America.

I have a personal short film animation that I’m currently researching and world-building on on the early years of the AIDS epidemic and Haitians.

On the client front, I’m available!

Mack Garrison 7/17/23 Mack Garrison 7/17/23

Meet the speakers: Amanda Godreau

An interview with Amanda Godreau, a Puerto Rican multidisciplinary artist. Through bold work, Amanda lends her creative vision across multiple mediums, showcasing her appreciation for the beauty of design throughout unique spaces.

Q&A hosted by Meryn Hayes and Ashley Targonski.

Read time: 15min

Meryn Hayes:

Amanda, welcome. For those who don't know you, I'd love it if you could give a quick intro and how you got into motion design.

Amanda Godreau:

I got into motion design completely by accident, which is something that I always love to tell people. I think once you're in it, you really start to see that it's everywhere. I went to college originally for coding and then transferred to college in Florida for graphic design, and they just so happened to have one of the best motion design programs there. And a really talented professor found me, and said, "You need to change careers."

I was like, "All right." And it was just, it's been a whirlwind since. I feel like every single year I've learned something really different.

Meryn Hayes:

I think many people can relate to finding their way into this industry. I think this industry gets people from all kinds of career backgrounds, which I think is one of the really unique things about it.

Amanda Godreau:

I completely agree. I think throwing out the plan has been such a good thing for me. I think even as of six months ago, what I had planned just completely flipped. And I think learning to embrace it has only been to my benefit. It's been to the benefit of people around me, and I think it should be discussed more. I don't think you can plan for most things in life.

Meryn Hayes:

Absolutely. Well, that leads really nicely into my next question; so you graduated about a year ago, right? Did you have a lot of expectations of what was going to happen after graduation? I mean, what was the plan?

Amanda Godreau:

I feel like I wasn't entirely sure what I wanted to do when I graduated. To be completely honest, I didn't even know if I wanted to continue in the same field. I was heavily considering shifting to another industry altogether. And I knew the one thing in my plan was to rest. I came out of art school extremely burnt out. And that's something that needs to be talked about more. There’s something that TJ touched on last time at Dash Bash, I remember being a student watching his panel, and that it was a very big moment for me. I remember thinking "Someone who has been in this industry for so long is acknowledging it, I need to pivot and think about how to build rest to what I'm doing."

That was the plan post-grad, was to rest, and recharge because I knew that the aftermath of being so heavily focused on my career. To be able even to say you have a career in college is crazy, right? I realized I needed to allow myself time to be a 20-year-old in my early twenties, and as a result that’s been really beneficial to my career as well, I think.

Meryn Hayes:

That's so important because as we all know, finding inspiration in your art, in your work has to happen outside of your computer, outside of your desk. Being inspired by things, having a life, and especially at a young age. Feeling like you have the freedom and ability to find who you are because at that age you're still figuring out, "Who am I?" I mean, I'm still figuring out who I am. You need space in your life and to not have everything planned out in such a way that it constricts you from figuring out who that is before you really even started.

Amanda Godreau:

Yeah. And that's all to the benefit of the art. I feel like the moments where I had the hardest time making art, creating art, and making art that I was proud of were the moments where I was pushing myself so much that I had nowhere to draw from. If you're not connected to yourself first, you can't make something that's supposed to connect with others. So, I laid aside any professional aspirations I had. Including what studios I wanted to work with and what I wanted to do. I laid it to bed five to six months after graduating because I realized that even if I could do it, I was really going to enjoy doing it. And ultimately, I feel like enjoying the art you're making and your work is the top priority.

Meryn Hayes:

Yeah, absolutely. And in terms of finding your style and what brings you joy and the work that you do after graduation, what was your approach to finding that?

Amanda Godreau:

Finding the work that I enjoy making, I think, for me, has had to do with connecting with so many different people and so many different types of artists. My number one goal this year was to chat with people, learn, and view outside of my lived experience. And that inspired me to make many choices in how I approach my art. I was really fortunate last year. I got to go to Portugal for NFC Portugal. It was just this gigantic NFT conference, no motion designers, I think I was the only of the few ones there.

Even though personally I'm not active in the NFT community, I got to chat with people who are so invested in it, and at the end of the day, everyone's making art, right? Connecting with just people as artists outside of a commercial or traditional background has been so valuable.

Something I started to do as well was to connect with smaller BIPOC and female-owned brands, and I've been working one-on-one with a couple, developing renders pro bono, and just making art with women that I connect with. And that's been a really good way for me to give back, push my creative vision forward, and also feel like I'm doing meaningful work that serves an ethical but also spiritual purpose for me. And that's been really good.

Meryn Hayes:

That's amazing. How were you making those connections with artists after graduation?

Amanda Godreau:

I was chronically online in undergrad; a lot of these connections were friends or people that I had connected with during this time when everyone was online because of the pandemic. I've gotten to travel so much and be like, "Oh my God, we've known each other for four years; we've never met, let's hang out," And that's led to even more connections and more people. And I feel like it's snowballed into this gigantic network of people that I feel like I've known for years, and also simultaneously feel like I don't know it all.

Meryn Hayes:

I think that's one of the things that I am just so appreciative about this industry and this community is that willingness to just chat. I mean, my background is in photography. I ended up here because I found myself at a marketing agency here in Raleigh, which is where I met Mack and Cory who founded Dash. But before I joined, I had been involved in animation and live-action projects, but this whole motion community was completely over my head. And so, as soon as I joined, I just realized how kind everyone was and willing to share their experiences, which I just feel is pretty rare in most industries, but especially in art. I just can't imagine photographers, I don't know, sharing their problems or I just think it's a really special place to be able to find that.

Amanda Godreau:

I agree. I think this community is extremely generous. I think this community overall is extremely humble and I think it's really open. I think there's a lot of room for people to grow in all sorts of directions and I feel like you can almost always find someone to relate to in at least some sense. And everyone's cheerleaders for each other. I don't think, at least the people I intentionally try to connect with and stay in touch with, I feel like everyone's so proud of each other at the end of the day, not just for professional reasons, but for artistic reasons, right?

Something I've tried to make a very different distinction this year is the difference between being a designer and being an artist. I think before this year, I would be a designer and people would ask me, "What's your style?" And I'd respond by saying, "I don't have a style. I follow a brief. I'm a designer, I'm a problem solver." This year I'm getting to explore an artistic side of myself and acknowledging that side, I wasn't open to it at the time, and just starting to understand the difference has been a really big conversation among a lot of people in the community. I think it’s been a really great one.

Meryn Hayes:

Absolutely. I mean, again, going back to your whole life, you're given briefs in college and growing up, about who you're supposed to be or what you're supposed to be doing. And so, for the first time, you're actually trying to figure out, "Who am I?" Both personally and artistically. So, really giving yourself that space on both sides of that coin is just so important.

Amanda Godreau:

Yeah, I agree.

Meryn Hayes:

So, timeline here, so you were in the middle of college when the pandemic started?

Amanda Godreau:

Yeah, I was in my sophomore year. I had done one year in person, at that point II had done one semester of After Effects and one semester of Cinema 4D when then the whole world shut down. That was completely unexpected.

Meryn Hayes:

Yeah. And so, how do you feel, I mean, it's all you've known, so hard to compare, but how do you feel that changed your trajectory of what you were learning or how you were learning or learning from other students?

Amanda Godreau:

I think it completely changed the trajectory of my career for sure. I think as for socially, I don't think it left me with much of a college experience or much ability to connect with other people, but that's a completely different topic in itself. I think what that period of online learning gave me was my career. I started freelancing full-time after my second internship. I completely attribute that to the amazing opportunity that Gunner gave me. They hired me as their intern that summer. I wrote them this very dorky email being like, "I really want to work with you guys, and I can work remotely. I'm super good at it, I promise.

I was able to freelance every single year after that. I think about my choice of going freelance after college versus taking a staff job often.

Had there been more in-person opportunities to be in a studio with people collaborating, looking over monitors, going staff would've been more of a consideration for me. But at the end of the day, when I graduated, everything was still Zoom-oriented. I felt most comfortable staying freelance and meeting new people and teams.

Meryn Hayes:

Yeah, that's really interesting. We were down at SCAD at CoMotion back in March and talking to students who are about to graduate and obviously, there's a lot of opportunities going in staff or freelance and trying to give them some advice about options. And I always like to be very clear that I only have ever done 9-5 staff jobs, agency jobs, or in-house. So, I don't have the freelance perspective of freedoms, so I can only offer it slightly one-sided, and I hate to sound like Boomery, but I just know that early in my career I learned so much by sitting at a desk next to somebody just looking at asking questions, looking at their screen.

And so, part of me just feels for students who are graduating who don't have opportunities like that, or like you said, even now a lot of staff jobs are remote or hybrid and that's like, "Why am I going to go into the studio to then remote into somebody in Wisconsin or California?" And so, just finding out what people want to get out of that first experience after college and trying to find whether that's freelance or staff.

Amanda Godreau:

I think the industry, in general, is going to find itself with a very different type of workforce because of this, I personally have the opinion that it ripples down 100%. You have people two years before me, so many people who graduated in 2020. The industry was so focused on just how to switch and not lose these giant pitches and how we work, which fair, needed to happen but left a gigantic question mark on how students and upcoming graduates view the industry.

Meryn Hayes:

Good leading question. I was going to go, "How, Amanda, do you fix it?" But you're going to tell us in at the Bash.

Amanda Godreau:

Going back to Ringling in March. I found a lot of good insight. I did this amazing long two-day portfolio review with Doug Alberts from Noodle, and we got to talk one-on-one to students, and I really asked them, "How do you feel about this community? How well do you feel about jobs? What's your experience? Do you feel prepared as a senior?" And I got to get all this amazing feedback that I think is really informing how I'm trying to shape this presentation.

I had an existential crisis when you guys asked me to speak because I was like, "How am I supposed to speak to a room of people who have decades of experience over me?" I think my art is awesome, I'm my art's number one cheerleader, but we're in this very interesting time where there's so much more conversation to have about what we can do to support the youngest people in our industry and how that is essential for the better of everyone. That's what I'm interested in right now.

Meryn Hayes:

I mean, well, now I feel bad that we caused an existential crisis.

Amanda Godreau:

No, it was a good one.

Meryn Hayes:

Okay, good. But I think we would be remiss to not think about the younger generation. I mean, there's two schools of thought that we need to figure out how people retire in this industry. That's a whole other thing. But on the other side of that coin is figuring out what has changed in the last two, three, four decades as people have come into this industry. And hearing from people like you or others who are just getting into it. I mean, you have a valuable perspective, and if we don't account for both sides of that coin... We need to figure out how to include all of those ideas.

Amanda Godreau:

Yeah.

Ashley Targonski:

I think what's great about what you're talking about is it's a perspective that not a lot of our other speakers have because they have been in the industry for a while. So, hearing from someone who is newer in the industry, you've gone through all of this, I think it's going to be so interesting to hear you talk about that. And I think that's one of the main reasons we're doing this conference is to have real talks about the industry and really dive into these topics that you wouldn't normally hear.

Amanda Godreau:

I really struggled with figuring out what to talk about because, ideally a presentation, a 40, 50-minute presentation about my work would be amazing. But if I have faith in myself that I'm going to have a very long and probably great career, there's going to be so many more opportunities for me to do that. I think right now, we have a gigantic young workforce that really needs their voice to be heard. Even though this is just my perspective and my interpretation, hopefully, it's a great starting point to get the conversation going. That's my goal.

Meryn Hayes:

Yeah, I love that. Getting back into some of the work, what was it? So, you started doing graphic design when you switched to Ringling, and then a professor pulled you into animation, and pretty immediately, you headed to the 3D space?

Amanda Godreau:

No, I think we did 3D in our second year. So, the year that the world shut down in the spring, we took one introductory 3D class that was mandatory. I didn't even know 3D existed. I just fell into the course, and I was like, "Oh, this is so amazing."

Apart from coding, I was really invested in photography. When I started using 3D and Cinema- 4D, it felt natural. I could understand light, and the physics of it because I'd had to think about strobes, posing, etc. It felt a lot more familiar to me than traditional After Effects animation. I've always considered myself a designer, and I felt like there were infinitely more possibilities for me to design in a 3D space than a two-dimensional one without having also to animate. Animating is cool, it's just not my first love.

Meryn Hayes:

I love that. And I mean, it definitely seems like a natural progression of where your interests and your skills lie. And so, heading into a 3D direction, how have you been able to find clients as you started freelancing?

Amanda Godreau:

I’ve been really fortunate to have had an amazing and generous network that got me up an running while I was in school. It was a very, I think, organic thing. Post grad I’ve enjoyed collaborating with the small businesses that I've been working with independently and that’s been a different experience. It’s a very meticulous, and consistent effort. I have this gigantic spreadsheet, and I did so much outreach trying not to sound like a spam email, essentially me being like, "Hey, work with me. I won't charge you or I'll charge you pennies." And they're like, "This isn't real."

I think I get a lot of young people who are still in college or while I was in college and they're like, "Would you recommend me going freelance?" And I would always say, "Absolutely not unless you have a big network of friends and colleagues” it’s a risky career move that requires you to be savvy not just creatively but financially.

Meryn Hayes:

Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's why I got to think, again, as someone who hasn't freelanced, that just so much of it is about the connections you make. And so, going freelance right out of college to be really successful has to be a challenge. And the amount of connections that it takes and the outreach and the upkeep, I mean, those are just things that they weren't teaching when I went to college. And I just have to think a part of, as you say, as things shift with this new generation, how we teach them has to change too. It's not as it was in the olden days.

I was just telling Ashley earlier today we got a request from a client we've never worked with. It was a recommendation from some Mographers that I talked to literally three years ago. I haven't spoken with them since or really kept up a lot and they just must have mentioned our name to this client and here we are. And so, it just goes to show that those connections and that, they really matter and making a good impression and just reminding yourself that stuff might not immediately turn into a project or a relationship, but three years down the line it might, you never know.

Amanda Godreau:

Yeah, that's literally what I try to remind people. And I also try to remind people that I had a very non-traditional experience. I didn't just go to art school, I went to NYU for coding, before NYU I had a little bit of a stint in a university in Puerto Rico which got interrupted by the gigantic hurricane that we got hit with. That’s what brought me to the US in the first place. Before then, I was always really interested in spreadsheets and finances and business. I assisted wedding photographers for five years from middle school to high school. So, I was really used to working with people who owned their own businesses, doing a lot of the upkeep, the follow-up. I almost feel like the creative side has been the easiest in my freelance journey.

There's so many things that are just soft skills that go hand in hand with freelancing. I almost feel like I fell into it.

Meryn Hayes:

Well, it sounds like, again, you worked really hard, but a lot of the disparate skills all connected to make this a really useful tool for you as you started. I mean, that's something that Ashley and I, producing is just a whole set of soft skills and something that if you go out freelancing without having been in-house or at an agency, you're essentially your own producer as well. And there's a reason why we exist. It's a whole job outside of the creative and not being exposed to what that entails I think sometimes causes people to start freelancing and then they think they're a failure of not being successful when they just haven't set themselves up to be successful because they didn't know it existed. You know? Don't know what you don't know.

Amanda Godreau:

Yeah, exactly. Producing is a whole other thing. I actually considered doing a production internship after graduating because I'm so interested in it. But again, I feel like that's just where my interest lies. Production to me is as interesting as creating and I don't think that's a very popular opinion. I might be wrong.

Meryn Hayes:

We love hearing it, we love to hear that.

Amanda Godreau:

Yeah! Many of my good friends are producers. I strongly believe that the success of a creative project is dependent on the work that goes before you even start thinking about what it looks like. And I think that's pretty cool of you guys.

Ashley Targonski:

Looking at your growth path, I thought it was really interesting that you had a talk with Maxon in 2021 when you were still in school. You've also won their Rookie Award. So, I wanted to see how that journey and experience because you were so new at the Cinema 4D program, but then you're talking about it just seeing it a year later, which is amazing.

Amanda Godreau:

Yeah, I feel like all my experiences have been so surreal. When Maxon reached out asking me to present at their 3D Show I was like, "Are you aware that I've been using this program for under a year?" At that point.

I think I've had to constantly reinforce that I’m deserving of the opportunities that come my way. Imposter syndrome is so real. Sarah Beth did an amazing talk at the Bash last time. I think perspective is the most important thing we can have. I think my art is awesome and while I might not be the most technically experienced person in the room, I have such a passion for design, I feel like I'm very methodical in the ways that I do and that has inherent value…

It really resonated with me when you mentioned about how you appreciated the topic of which I'm speaking on about at Dash this year because it's something that compared to the rest of the lineup of the speaker, is very unique to my experience. I feel like that's how I've approached my career in general because although this is a very young industry and figuring out how people are even going to retire in this industry is a big question mark, looking at what I can give, being like, "Okay, I'm this person in this room, what can I do to not just be of use for myself, but to others?"

Ashley Targonski:

I really love that. And just I think you understand that while you're still in college and it's something that you're living by even today as you continue to grow as an artist, that's really cool because in college I was like, "I don't know what I'm doing." I'm just going with the flow.

Amanda Godreau:

No one knows. Yeah, I think it's so powerful and it's if you don't learn how to do that, especially as women, especially as a Black woman, it's so easy to undervalue yourself. "Oh, I'm not the smartest. Oh, I don't have the most years of experience. Oh, I've never done this before." I think shaping your perspective is vital to existing in this industry as someone who's not typically what you think of when you think of a CG designer.

Meryn Hayes:

That is so important. I mean, I think nobody knows what they're doing and when you figure that out, it helps a whole hell of a lot. I think as women we've spent way too much time doubting ourselves and trying to find space where normally you would be in that place of self-doubt.

Think about all the other things, all of the other time we would have, if we weren't doubting ourselves for every second of every day or every move, or how do we sound in X email? I mean, I have had to do a whole heck of a lot of unlearning to ignore those instincts. When you get in moments of self-doubt like that, where do you go? What's your headspace? How do you combat that?

Amanda Godreau:

I think I just remind myself that my career isn't that important. And I know that sounds counterproductive, but coming from a different culture where work isn't seen as the number one thing you strive for has been a huge factor. I've only lived stateside for four and a half years, and I think people forget that because they don't hear an accent.

In devaluing the amount of importance that I place on my career previously, I’ve been able to shift my headspace to, "I'm going to show up because I want to, not because I have to." At least for me, that’s flipped my mindset into being able to set better boundaries with myself and others work-wise and personally. I also have put a lot of importance into making friends with people who have nothing to do with the creative world. I have friends who are engineers and city planners, etc. Being around people who can separate my creative value from my personal value, especially this year has made the biggest difference.

It’s made me realize the importance of separating your own self-worth to what other people creatively think about you or as a professional. That's been really important.

Meryn Hayes:

Yeah, that's a good point. It's like we're so ingrained in our little bubble that it's a good reminder that a whole world, a whole lot of worlds exist outside of the Mograph community. And again, going back to how the world inspires art, talking with people outside of the community and talking with people in different disciplines, all of that is stuff that can give you an idea or inspire you in ways you weren't expecting. And also, it's just nice to meet people who are not the same as you.

Amanda Godreau:

Yeah, it's so much easier. Like, can we talk about how successful everyone in this industry is? No matter what they do. I remember last year being a senior or graduating and being like, "Oh my God, I'm so behind." I used to be so hard on myself.

It's not until I started hanging out with other people in their early twenties in other career paths, that I got a really healthy dose of, "You need to get some perspective." Because it can be really deceptive to be surrounded by, studio owners, successful freelancers, art directors, and NFT artists who all are financially doing so well.

It’s easy to forget what you do have, and what you should be grateful for. It's been so helpful for me to just sit down and be like, "You're losing perspective. You have ownership of your own time. You set your own salary. You get to pick and choose and say yes and no to work opportunities. And that's not something that most people ever get to do, period."

Meryn Hayes:

Well, I hope everyone comes to the Bash for many reasons, but I hope that that is one thing that people can take away from the Bash. I mean, back in 2021, I just feel like the honesty and the stories we got from our speakers last time were in comparison to all conferences or design festivals. It wasn't just get up there and talk about your work for 45 minutes and, "Oh, I worked with Nike and Google, and look how successful I am." But it's, "Here's why this was a challenge. Here's where I thought my career was over and then I started something new." Or fuck hustle, what TJ said, so having those honest conversations because everything's bright and shiny and if we all look successful, that's great.

But then for students who are just starting, or people just entering the industry, not even just students. You automatically feel like a failure if you're not an award-winning studio owner or you sold an NFT for a bajillion dollars. And so, that imposter syndrome is easy to walk into because you just walk into the industry doubting yourself.

Amanda Godreau:

Yeah, it's so bad. And like Ashley mentioned I was doing the Maxon 3D show. I won the Rookie Award. I graduated I got to have my work in Beeple’s studio opening in North Carolina. I remember that last experience so well because I felt like I couldn't look at my own work on a screen.

I felt like a complete imposter. I was like, "This isn't real.” "I don't want to look at my work." And I had to seriously sit myself down that night and be like, "What's going on? Am I the only one that feels this way? Why do I feel this way?" It’s so easy to think people don’t feel that way about their own work when you’re just experiencing them through social media. I’ve had students come up to me and say "I don't feel great, and I have to feel great to be able to do what you do." And I'm like, "The secret is I'm still learning how to feel great about it." I'm still learning how to accept it, how to not minimize my hard work, how to not just say, "It fell into my lap, or it was just luck."

And acknowledge that there were so many hours put in, so much burnout that happened. Giving yourself credit for the things you’ve accomplished is definitely something that’s been a learned skill. Despite how I might feel sometimes, I can often acknowledge that you can hold two truths at the same time.

Meryn Hayes:

Yeah, I mean, even in this conversation, you said that everything fell into your lap, but you worked really hard and then the right opportunity came along. Those two things, those truths can be true.

Amanda Godreau:

Exactly. I have to catch myself all the time.

Ashley Targonski:

I think that's something I've had to also deal with a lot is imposter syndrome. And I was managing teams and I was still like, "Why are they asking me to do stuff? Because I don't know what I'm doing." And I obviously did. But I think a large thing that you're saying that I really think is great is you are meeting all these people, you're creating opportunities for yourself to have more opportunities in the future. So, just taking every chance you have to be able to have another opportunity later. I think that's so important for when you're young, but then also as you continue to grow throughout your career.

Amanda Godreau:

Yeah, I mean, it reminds me of why I do what I do. Yesterday I had this amazing call with the founder of a brand. She founded a brand for this luxury fragrance spray. They've won all these awards. The founder is also Black and she's manufacturing this in the Bronx which is amazing. When I saw her brand I immediately messaged her, and I was like, "Oh my God, I love your perfume. Can I please work with you? You don't have to pay me. Can I just please help support this vision?" And I got a call with her yesterday, and she's said, "You don't know how hard I've looked for a creative that understands my perspective." "I looked everywhere. I couldn't find anyone." "How do you find other people creatives like you?"

And I remember telling her, "I don't know. I don't really know anyone like me."

That's a conversation I've had so many times. I think even last year, Meryn, when I was on Sarah Beth's Motion Coven podcast, I mentioned the number of times I get on a call where I'm the only woman there, and it’s assumed I'm the producer instead of a 3D designer."

I always ask people, "Hey, does anyone ever know another Black female 3D artist?” Looking at how big our industry is, I can't find someone who looks like me in the same feild. I don’t think that's something that everyone who does have that privilege is entirely conscious of.

Motion Design feels like a family to so many folks in it, or at least that’s a sentiment I’ve heard enough to remember. But it has to feel like that for more than a homogenous group. There was a very visible push for DEI initiatives around 2020 and George Floyd’s murder but efforts have become less and less public as time has passed.

Meryn Hayes:

Well, A, I'll see those people out personally. I think it's also how we move forward holistically for a sustained period of time. Like you said that there was this big push after George Floyd's murder. Everyone posted on social media and talked about bringing in more diverse groups and finding freelancers in communities that weren't of their own. But that push has to continue and be sustained across the entire industry. It's hard to push a rock up a hill if you're just by yourself, right? It has to be the community. And so, obviously, that's something that we've talked a lot about internally.

And I was, back in March, in CoMotion, we had a diversity and equity panel. We were talking and someone in the audience asked how we felt about the industry moving ahead, looking ahead. And I think the thing that boggles my mind is looking at the crowd at CoMotion, looking at Ringling, the minority of people in that group was white men by far. There were more women in the audience at CoMotion, and most of them were not white. And so, I have hopes looking ahead that the opportunities that people are given now, finding communities, like the animation industry can happen at earlier ages, right? In college. But the barriers of cost and equipment and finding places like SCAD or Ringling, I mean, that's a huge investment that communities don't have the opportunity to find.

Amanda Godreau:

I also think that looking at colleges specifically, art colleges, student bodies aren't the best way to project what the industry is going to look like. I think that while it's great to have hope in what student bodies look like, that's not going to change until the people doing the hiring have more knowledge, and perspective to be able to acknowledge what our biases are.

You have to acknowledge it in order to move past it. It might not seem like an issue to most people, because in theory your race, gender, or identity has nothing to do with the technical aspects and ability of doing a job. However, it leaves a gigantic void for mentorship. I want to be an art director, ideally a creative director, at some point in my career but I can't point to what that looks like for a Black woman. I can't ask anyone for advice and be like, "As a Black woman, how did you navigate x, y z to become a creative director?" There's no one that I know of for me to ask. And I've asked. I've asked every single time I'm on a call with a studio, when they ask, "Do you have any questions?" My question is, "Do you know any Black women AD’s, CDs?" I'm actively asking.

Even if I am here moving through my career, the road to success for these career paths is inherently absent.

Meryn Hayes:

Insane.

Ashley Targonski:

This ties into something we talked to Macaela from Newfangled about, but they have created a DIB section of their company. And when they work on projects, they find people in those communities who actually work on those projects and understand. They do the research; they talk to them about their experiences. And I think that's so integral to... That's what everyone should be doing. We should really be understanding, we shouldn't have this person on this project that doesn't know anything about what we're doing. Let's talk to the communities. Yeah.

Amanda Godreau:

I also think that leads to a really good opportunity to talk about possible jobs in this industry that don't exist in this industry. Because listen, I can say all day that my information is in my bio, on my website. But the truth is, producers are often also super overworked. You can't expect them to be reading the bio of every single artist that they're reaching out to. It's impossible.

I feel like that's a huge opportunity in motion design that could lead to even more jobs and a more diverse workforce. Producers do so much, they keep track of so many things.

Meryn Hayes:

I was also just re-reading Bien’s blog post for their Q&A, and they were talking about Double the Line efforts. Do you know about that program?

Amanda Godreau:

I don't!

Meryn Hayes:

It comes from the Association of Independent Producers (AICP, essentially for every job they have, they create a second line item in the budget for whatever it is, cel animation or illustration, to bring on an underrepresented minority group. So, a Black cel artist to pair with a senior cel artist so that they get opportunities to work on a project or on a client work that otherwise they wouldn't get. And then they have that as an opportunity to show on their portfolio, like, "Hey, I did this."

And so, bringing people into positions that they previously wouldn't have an opportunity because they don't have the connections yet. We talked about how important those connections are early on in finding jobs or careers.

Amanda Godreau:

That's amazing. I think that's an amazing thing for a studio to be doing. Going back to the conversation about SCAD and Ringling, I think that also has to be part of the conversation is that while it might be really convenient for studios to hire out of Ringling and SCAD because it's the standard, and you do come out industry ready. I think there are a lot of colleges and programs that are also overlooked that might have equally as amazing talent.

Last year I went to speak to the students at CUNY in Brooklyn. To my surprise when I arrived, I realized that not only was the professor Black, but so was the entire student body. Not only that but mostly black women. This was a Cinema 4D class.

I think that's the only time in my career where I've been in a room full of people who looked like me. I felt really conflicted when I left because they were there, talented, and learning with such amazing questions, and I couldn’t give them advice that was relevant to their experience. I had a huge leg up with going to a private art institution.

I carry some privileges. I feel very conflicted when I’m used as an example for someone who is a minority who’s moving through our industry. I often feel like the worst example. I went to a very expensive art school. I so happened to have my own business in high school that paid for a huge chunk of my college education. I come from a family of academics and had little to no barrier for entry when applying for college." While my experience has value, merit and includes a lot of hard work. No one should be used as a rule for "If they did it, why can’t you?"

Meryn Hayes:

Yeah, yeah. I think that's a good reminder. Just like you said that again, it's setting people up for failure, right? When you don't see all of those privileges that you know you've had and that I know I've had, and other people have had. You don't see that. And when you compare yourself to someone else, "Amanda did it, why aren't you doing it?"

Amanda Godreau:

Yeah.

Meryn Hayes:

Thank you. We're just so glad to have you come in and really can't thank you enough for participating, being willing, and we're looking forward to your talk!

Amanda Godreau:

I'm so excited. This is my favorite conference.

Ashley Targonski:

Can we quote you on that?

Amanda Godreau:

Yeah, totally.

Meryn Hayes:

It's going to be the Bash, the homepage. It's going to be a huge quote. Amanda says...”MY FAVORITE CONFERENCE”

Meryn Hayes:

Cool. Good chatting, Amanda. We'll see you soon!

Mack Garrison 7/7/23 Mack Garrison 7/7/23

Meet the speakers: Wes Louis

An interview with Wes Louis: a director, designer, and animator at The Line known for his unique design sensibility and his dramatic action-led animation sequences.

Q&A hosted by Mack Garrison.

Read time: 15min

Mack Garrison:

Wesley, I'm really pumped for this conversation because, well, one, if you don't know this already, you guys do phenomenal work. I mean, the cel work you guys produce, just really top tier, top quality.

Wes Louis:

Thank you, man, I appreciate that.

Mack Garrison:

I was talking to Dotti over at Golden Wolf, because she was at the Bash last time. She spoke on behalf of Golden Wolf there. She was talking about how highly she thinks of you guys and that for a long time you kept winning and losing to each other on pitches. It was just always you guys going back and forth.

Wes Louis:

Yeah, that is exactly right. They would do something and then we would do something, and they would do something but it feels kind of healthy. It's strange to say, because you think to yourself, "Well, I mean they are a rival company," but actually we have quite a good relationship with them. Anytime they have their summer parties or other events, they invite us over. We have a good laugh and a few drinks, so it's a healthy competitive space.

Mack Garrison:

I remember getting out of school and being so green in this space, not knowing anything, but how many people were willing to help me. Even growing from junior up to senior as an animator, and then again, starting the studio, and how people were just willing to share advice. I've never met a space that feels as communal as the motion design space really is.

Wes Louis:

I just think it’s what makes the space a better place to work in. No one's holding their cards too close to their chest. It's weird, because intuitively you’d think keeping what's unique about you secret would be the way to go but, the opposite has benefits. One of our other directors, Sam, always talks to guys from Animade or Moth Collective about all sorts. We all go to the same festivals, hang out and talk. "Well how did you do that or show the best way to do this?" it's a weird but nice little community we have

Mack Garrison:

It feels different, because I feel like it's not like that in the rest of the creative space. Even agencies, I know agencies are kind of cutthroat with each other, but studios, for whatever reason, it's not. I think it's because, as a studio owner, I feel like people start studios because they really love a singular craft.

Wes Louis:

Yeah, exactly, you're coming from the same place. And I think with us specifically, because all the directors of the company, we're all animators or compositors, we all come from creative backgrounds. I think we just have more of an understanding of people that work with us as well. So we understand burnout, we understand what it feels like not to want to work on something that maybe you're not feeling inspired by.

Mack Garrison:

So I run Dash with a business partner. We were both animators back in the day. We animated for basically a decade before trying our hand at running a shop and I think there's a difference. When leadership knows how to animate, you don't put your team in bad situations. Even just understanding what's reasonable, what's not, what's a hard request, what's not, and to be able to talk through that. I think you get into trouble when it gets too much on the business-oriented side of things.

Wes Louis:

Definitely. We worked on a Gorillaz music video with Jamie Hewlett. The turnaround for that, I think it was something ridiculous, six or eight weeks, and we did it because, I mean, it's the Gorillaz….

Mack Garrison:

This is the Humility piece, right?

Wes Louis:

Yeah.

Mack Garrison:

That you did that in 6 weeks. That's ridiculous.

Wes Louis:

Yeah, it was crazy. It was like a six-week turnaround to get everything done. Max and Tim were directing it. Tim's a massive Jamie Hewlett fan, so that's like a dream come true project just landing on his plate. We took the job, but I think everybody, including the directors, worked so hard on it. They were working late, working until 10 o'clock at night and all that kinds. We really understood what our staff was going through and I think they appreciated that we acknowledged that we were pushing them to the limit, but then we also said, "We're never doing that again," because you're breaking the people that are working for you. So while The project gave the studio a lot of street cred, it also made us really examine our working practices because the people who work for us are important. I mean animation is hard enough as it is without you having to come home after hours every night and you're not spending time with your friends and family. So you want to try and find a balance. I mean, sometimes it happens where a crunch happens and you have to stay a bit later, but I think nine times out of 10 it's definitely more of an exception than a rule. Whereas I know some companies are like, "No, you've got to work on the weekend and you've got to work on this, you've got to work that." We try not to do that.

Mack Garrison:

A hundred percent. We feel the same way. And I think part of it was also that self-reflection after the pandemic where priorities just totally switched for people. It's like, "Look, this is just a job." We like it, I love animation, but there's stuff outside of it. We all have stuff outside of it, right?

Mack Garrison:

I want to get back into some of the stuff you guys are doing at Line, because like I said, it's phenomenal. But maybe take me back to the beginning.

Wes Louis:

Yeah, so my family's Caribbean, St. Lucian. My parents were born over there. But I was born and raised here in London. As a child I was always into animation, just generally, Saturday morning cartoons, anime shows. I'd always been drawn well. I've been drawing since I was five-years-old... and never really put it down. So it was something that I think people thought it would just be a hobby that went away, and it never did. I was doing anything that could probably lead me into comics or animation, any excuse to draw. Graphic design was the closest thing I could find to do that. And even on graphic design projects, I was always trying to do some sort of character design or animation orientated thing. But yeah, I studied multimedia for a bit and I dropped out of that because I just wasn't happy doing the course, so I spent a few years working in retail and doing office work and all this stuff. And I think it was like 27, that I just asked myself the question, "If money and logistics weren't a factor, what would I be doing?" And animation just kept coming back, so I kind of worked my way backwards and just started saving for it and doing odd jobs so I can save money, so I could take a year or two off just so I can do a course in animation.

Mack Garrison:

So you did graphic design, you kind of dropped out of the multimedia side because you weren't vibing with it as much. You wanted to get more into the traditional, kind of cel animation. Is that what was drawing your interest mainly?

Wes Louis:

Yeah that's what it is. Even when I was doing retail, I remember I was working in a store called Hamleys, it's like a toy store, a big toy store in London on Regent Street. And I remember they would ask me to do graphic design things every now and then, but I was working behind the tills. And I remember applying for a job in the display department, where they would decorate displays and all that kind of stuff. And I thought, "Yeah, this would be perfect." And it's funny, the head of display, showed him my CV, showed my work. He is like, "Yeah, you're amazing," all this kind stuff. He's like, "But I'm not going to give you a job." I was like, "Why?" "Because you're too good for here." I was like, "Why?. He is like, "If you want to go and work in this, then get off your ass and go and find somewhere to work, but I'm not giving you a job here." And he refused to give me a job.

Mack Garrison:

Wow.

Wes Louis:

Yeah. There was also a point where I tried to go full-time in Hamleys, because I was working three or four days a week, and my manager at the time refused to give me a job. She refused to let me work full-time. I was like, "What's going on?" She goes, "Oh, I see you..." Because I would do a lot of doodles on till receipt paper while I'm waiting for customers. I've still got loads of them at home. She was like, "I always see you drawing on these receipts and you're just sitting here." And she goes, "Why aren't you going out and looking for real work in what you love?" I didn't really have a proper answer for her, because I was quite young at the time. But she's like, "Look, I'm not giving you a job here." She goes, "If you want to work a few days a week, that's fine, I can't stop you but don't try and apply for any other department, because if you try and apply, I'm going to tell them not to hire you."

Mack Garrison:

No way.

Wes Louis:

They just literally would not let me work full time there.

Mack Garrison:

That's so crazy. It's that early confidence push and kind of validation that what you're doing, what you're creating means something.

Wes Louis:

I think that's what it was. I actually did reach out to her (Her name is Julia) just to tell her thank you for doing that, pushing me. So I think from then I just went into work with more of a focus. I made a decision to become an animator and spent time working and saving up for a Postgraduate animation course at Central Saint Martins in London. It's funny, because when I went to visit the college they'd had the end of year show, and for some reason, that year it was incredible. So I worked so hard to get on that course, man, believing I wasn't good enough to get on the course. I was doing life drawing classes every weekend. I think I was doing it twice a week. And I went on to an art exchange program in Prague with conceptart.org, hosted by a company called Massive Black.

Mack Garrison:

Well it had to be good validation for you on this career path too, because I know when you find something you're really into, you get into this flow state where it's not work anymore. It's all this stuff that you're trying to get better at and it's hard, but it's fun. You're excited, you want to jump in and just learn as much as you can. It's a totally different vibe versus if you're in something you're not digging.

Wes Louis:

Oh, I think that's 100% true. And I could even point to projects I've done where I know the flow state versus not being in a flow state, for sure.

I did a lot of work to get on the course. I even visited the university a couple of times to speak to the head lecturer just to talk. "Ah," he goes, "you again." So I would go up there, spend about 20 minutes with him, keep in mind I lived an hour away from the university at the time. I'm showing him my sketchbook just asking questions “is this good? Do I need to draw more of this?” It really was an excuse to be in that environment with lightboxes and students flippings animation paper. It was the closest thing to an animation studio I'd ever been in and I loved it. By the time I had my interview he was just like, "All right, well let's see how we can get rid of you then." But he was joking, very British humor. He said, "Your portfolio is incredible. What took you so long," sort of thing. So he was like, "Of course we want you on the course.

Mack Garrison:

Right.

Wes Louis:

I had worked so hard to get on the course, because I just thought I wasn't good enough so I didn't take it for granted. I studied for a year. That's where I met Tim McCourt, who was on the same course as me. After the course finished, I spent about six months trying to finish my thesis film, which I didn't.

Mack Garrison:

That's great.

Wes Louis:

I really tried to finish. I thought there was something wrong with me because it was like, "Why can't I finish this?" And I was trying to get a certain amount of quality in a certain amount of time, but I just couldn't do it. Just not realizing that, actually animation takes time and it takes a team. And I'm trying to do this, Disney level stuff by myself.

Mack Garrison:

That's a lot. That's a lot to put on your plate. So you never finished the thesis?

Wes Louis:

No, I didn't finish but I really tried. I worked on it for a few months after the course but it was so much harder trying to do it from home. About 6 months after uni,I moved to Scotland. I was working at a company called Ink Digital on this film called Illusionist, as an inbetweener cleanup artist. I even tried to finish my thesis film there, redesigned the characters and everything. Even at that point, I wasn't very confident in animation. I just couldn't understand how to do it. I remember meeting with an animator at Django Films (that was the main studio for the Illusionist where all the animation took place) She gracefully took time out to show me around and show me her work and process. Within half an hour she said and My understanding of animation completely changed. If you asked me to do my thesis film today, be it two months or three months I’d finish it. I’d know what to animate, what to cheat etc.

Mack Garrison:

What did she say to you?

Wes Louis:

I said, "So what's your breakdown?" She goes, "I don't really think about it that way, I just do the motion. And then I find a breakdown afterwards." She showed me her sketches and demonstrated her method. It just made sense. It was Aya Suzuki, actually. She's gone on to work with directors like Hayo Myazakiand she's an incredible animator. It was just a half an hour chat and it was like things clicked all of a sudden where the things that I was struggling to do weren't hard anymore, because now I understood what it was. And it was just basically her process of how she put an idea down and got the movement down. I think my problem was getting too in the weeds of it, I was trying to understand what's a breakdown, what's a key. I think those things matter when you're passing off the animation to somebody else, but when you're doing it yourself, it doesn't matter that much, you know? There might be some people that disagree with me, but that was just for me, it just made sense the way she went about it.

Mack Garrison:

Tell me about some of the projects that came after that?

Wes Louis:

So when I got back from Scotland, I met up with Tim again and we worked on our first short film together. We spent about a year doing that at a Partizan. We were very fortunate to have a space to work for free as Tim had a good relationship with one of the producers at the time. We thought it would take us three months, it took us about a year. And we got an award from the Westminster Arts Council. So they were giving out money for people to make films and stuff... so I think they gave us 4,000 pounds, which seemed like a lot at the time.

Mack Garrison:

Yeah, of course.

Wes Louis:

I mean, me and Tim weren't getting paid for it, we were doing freelance work for Partizan so we could keep on going. We learnt a lot doing that. After that I guess the project that made me more well known was Super Turbo Atomic Ninja Rabbit, I just went full steam ahead. It was a style of animation I'd never approached before. I've never done anything like it which is ironic because my love of animation really is rooted in action and anime. There was no reason for me to think I could do it except that I just wanted to so I just went ahead and tried. Also got a friend Rina May to do the music and BXFTYS on sound fx. Actually let me backup, I'm jumping around a bit. After me and Tim made our film, we went around looking for work as directors. Turns out it doesn't really work in that way. You don't just go and apply to be a director.

Mack Garrison:

Yeah, right. Like, "I'd like to work here please." And it's like, "No, thank you."

Wes Louis:

Yeah, yeah. "I'd like to work as a director." It's like, "Not really, no."

Mack Garrison:

That's great.

Wes Louis:

I did show my portfolio though and a few weeks later it was like, "Oh, yeah, we like your work we have some jobs on if you're interested. That was at Nexus in London." And I was working there freelance for about a year and Tim was doing freelance at Partizan and some other places. While Tim was on the job, he met with Sam Taylor, James Duveen and Bjorn Erik Aschim, the other partners at The Line. Sam was looking for a studio space at the time and was asking if we were interested in sharing a space, and not even as a company but just people who animate together and have a shared space while working different freelance jobs. I couldn’t really afford it at the time but we had a friend Fritzi who had a desk and she was letting me use it at the time and eventually I took over from her. While at the studio Tim got approached by some of the runners who were at Partizan who now have their own company, Bullion Productions. They got a job from the Ministry of Sound to do a music video for Mat Zo and Porter Robinson and asked if Tim and I were up for directing because they knew we made our short film at Partizan. So it was like, "Yeah, sure." And then the other guys we were sharing a space with, they were just finishing up their film Everything I can See From Here, so we were like, "Oh, if you guys aren't doing anything, we'd like to hire you to work on our project." So the six of us worked on this project together and it went so well. It was an incredible experience. We just said, "Oh, how about we start a collective, we can just consolidate our work and take it further?" That's basically when we formed The Line.

Mack Garrison:

It's perfect.

Wes Louis:

Soon after Bjorn got contacted by Electric Theatre Collective (ETC) to do some concept art and they were asking, "Do you know any animators or character designers?" He's like, "Oh, I actually know five guys."

So we went over there and we were working together for a while. They gave us some funding to make our first official The Line original projects. Amaro and Walden's Joyride and Super Turbo Atomic Ninja Rabbit. Ideas we had for a couple years. We were working on those productions simultaneously and released them a month apart, maybe two. I think that these projects gave us our notoriety. From then we just started getting commercial projects. We were at ETC for about 3 years I think but eventually ended up leaving to actually start our own studio. No hard feelings or anything, it just became harder to function the way we wanted to as directors. We thought, "Let's see if we can start our own company." I mean the options then were, to either leave and try and make some more money to build ourselves back up, and then hopefully regroup again, which probably wouldn't have happened. Or let's just go for it and start a company. So we pooled some money together, got a studio space and our first job came within 2 months and….

Mack Garrison:

The rest is history.

Wes Louis:

... five years later we've got, I think about we have roughly 40 people with us including the 6 founders.

Mack Garrison:

Man, that's crazy.

Wes Louis:

James counted about, over three or four projects, we had about 110 people working with us at one time.

Mack Garrison:

Wow. That's crazy.

Wes Louis:

Yeah, it is a bit surreal, because you're looking around and you're like- "I don't exactly know how this works but it is working, and it's great."

Mack Garrison:

Oh, no, it's really cool. So a couple of things I picked up on there, Wesley that I think is really interesting and I want to poke at a bit is, so you get out of school, you end up on this Illusionist project, you're kind of navigating the process a bit, but then it kind of starts to click. You and Tim, then after the Illusionist, work on your personal project, right. What film was that that you guys were doing?

Wes Louis:

Drawing Inspiration.

Mack Garrison:

Drawing Inspiration, that's right. So you're doing these films or this entertainment side of things and then you end up from that side into kind of the commercial space a bit from there. But I like how when you even refer to the projects you're working on, you're referring to them as films. Everything you do has this artistic lens. And I do think there's this balance in animation with art versus design, right?

Wes Louis:

Yeah.

Mack Garrison:

How did you navigate that as you got into that world and all of a sudden these projects, which I'm sure you had thoughts on, on how you want it to be, is now getting pushback from clients who are paying you for it and they want it done a certain way and you're like, "That's killing the artistic style of it." How does the artist versus designer kind of come into play for you these days?

Wes Louis:

That's a really interesting question. I mean even the short films that we made, people ask, "How do you make the time to make those films and do what you want? It's insane." And the answer is, it is insane. It sounds very cliche, but we were too stupid to know that you're not supposed to do these kinds of things. We made two short films in a year simultaneously, while trying to do freelance projects. And that's crazy, because I was working, I mean we were working weekends, evenings and stuff, and it's not an easy thing to do. But like you said, if you love what you're doing, you don't really perceive it as work, you just perceive it as this thing that you need to get done.

In terms of the commercial side, I think earlier on I would say we did get projects that you'd get weird client pushback. I remember doing a project and I literally had the clients standing behind me while I was doing a drawing.

Mack Garrison:

No! I would've quit. I would've been out.

Wes Louis:

Oh god, it was like the Apprentice. There were about three or four of them and I was drawing a face. "Oh, do this in the lips. Move it, move it. No, push it up, push it down. Make her eyes bigger. Make it smaller." And the drawing, at the end of it, I just remember sitting there thinking, "This is not going in my portfolio, this is the worst piece of work I've ever done.”

And luckily, I mean they kind of doubled back and they were like, "Oh, actually, this is not working." And then I had to redesign it from scratch and they just kind of left us to it. But actually, generally speaking, I feel like our clients have been really good. And I think that's because of the short films that we've made. And I think the thing that we realize is, if we make the things that we want to make and make it high quality, people hopefully will come to us for what we do rather than what someone else does. And I think that brings about a certain amount of trust from our client as well. So if we show them something that we've done that they're interested in. So anytime we get a pitch in, well a lot of the times they will point to other people's work, but it will always have our work in there. "Oh, when you did this on this project, this was great. We'd love more of this and stuff."

Mack Garrison:

It's almost like, concept-wise with references to other things, but stylistically it always comes back to you all. So you know you're in the right lane.

Wes Louis:

Yeah. So actually when we are doing stuff, nine times out of ten, I would say you do get satisfaction from the client work. Obviously it's not going to be 100% your way and I think there's an expectation of that. Look, someone's paying you to do this and you put your best foot forward and say, "Look, I really don't think this is a good idea because," and they do listen and then sometimes it's someone higher than the person you're talking to is like, "No, we definitely want this." "Oh, okay, that's fine." I always take our client projects as a space to learn as well.

Mack Garrison:

Sure, sure.

Wes Louis:

I'm getting paid to learn how to do something a little bit differently and apply it to my own work and to the studio as well. I mean the whole reason we started it is so that we can make our own stuff. We actually put some of our profits back into personal and development projects. We’ve actually got a few in development at the moment and one hopefully dropping late-summer.

Mack Garrison:

Perfect. That will be a perfect time to roll it in for the summer and share it on the big screen here in Raleigh.

Wes Louis:

Yeah, exactly. It's a short. Our films are quite short so typically they’re made in the style of a trailer or a music video, because to try and do anything longer can be quite difficult if you want something really long form. Doing shorts like this gives us a chance to kind of put stuff out there, our own identity and have people in the studio play around on things that they probably wouldn't normally get to do at other studios. We've actually got another director, who is the first director doing a personal project outside of the six of us.

Mack Garrison:

How does that feel? Because I do think there's something about as you progress as a studio or owner, you can't have your hand in everything. You can't always see stuff. Does it feel weird to get to this space where there's a director kind of rolling with something and you're not really sure what's going on?

Wes Louis:

It's weird. I think even just not being hands-on is a little bit frustrating for me. I got into it so I can draw and animate and I'm not drawing and animating anymore. And even people have said to me, "Oh, I don't really see your work anymore." It really is rewarding though, to see an animator go from a junior assist role to directing a project on her own project; leading a team of people, having her own voice and having the respect of all her peers supporting her, I think is amazing. I think none of us are under the illusion that we're always going to be relevant and it's nice to be able to build a space with the resources we have that can trickle down to the next generation. And they create stuff, and they do better than we ever could.

Mack Garrison:

I think, well because you look back and you look at the stuff that you've gone through and you learn about things that you really liked and the people that pushed you. Even your retail boss, don't do this, or your colleague who's like, "Think about it this way," and there's all these moments with these spaces where that's conducive. And so I think as leaders, you try to create that space at your studio. What are the things that you really wanted? What are the things that you can create an area for someone to try stuff to fail and stuff to grow and to learn? And so that's got to be a huge highlight at The Line.

Wes Louis:

Yeah, it is something that I think we speak about we're proud of. I mean, we don't always get everything right, we're still learning.

Mack Garrison:

Sure.

Wes Louis:

But I think more often than not from what people have said, unless they're lying to us, they're comfortable working or they like it, they feel supported, they feel like they've been heard and they get to put their ideas across. We've got this initiative that our development manager has put forward. So basically, we give 10 days to each person on the staff every year to just go in and play. The caveat is that it has to benefit the company in some sort of way. So it could be they go in, find a new system for production or just learn how to draw something a little bit better. Anything they want. It doesn't have to be something they present, it's just 10 days for people to go and play, because sometimes you wait for downtime to happen and sometimes there is no downtime. So it's like, all right, here's 10 days. And actually, some of the projects that we're working on now came from that. In fact, there's about three projects that have come from our exploration time where people have gone away, had 10 days to think about something that they weren't thinking about before, and then they've come back and said, "Oh, actually, I've got a great idea." It's like, "All right, let's make that, let's put some money into that so you get to have a bit of a creative outlet.

Mack Garrison:

That's cool. I love that. And I love the buy-in from folks too, because it makes people feel like they're bought into the studio. They're bringing their ideas to the table and the studio's rallying around them, which is really nice too.

Wes Louis:

I think that the thing with us is that we're like, "Oh, it would be so cool if we had this when we were coming up." We're like, "All right, well let's just do it for our staff." And it seems to be working.

Mack Garrison:

Do y'all feel good where you are now or do you want to continue to expand? Do you have any big, broader goals for the company?

Wes Louis:

It's funny you say that, because we literally are in a kind of space where we're trying to reestablish and just remember where we came from and use that to inform where we're going. So I'm from the Caribbean, as I said before, and what I've been doing is I've started this kind of program with a company in Jamaica called ListenMi, they're an animation company. And basically I just give them an hour a week or hour every two weeks of my time just sharing insight into just how animation works and helping them, in a sense, kind of level up. Because I think you've got loads of animators or aspiring animators in the Caribbean who just don't have the resources or people to teach them.

And I know I learn a lot because I've spoken to people around me and I've got access to certain things. And I guess for me personally, I would love The Line to be one of these spaces where, I don't know, it has some sort of academic program, training, and internship. And that's something that I have started trying out. I don't know where it's going to go. I feel like this is something that could take the next 10 years, it could take 20 years or something, I don't know. But I do recognize that, for instance, you've got places like Korea where the American animation was being outsourced to them and now they've just got incredible studios like Studio Mir for example. I think that's how you grow an industry. And I feel like the dream for me would be, reaching out to these places and training them up so that they can start. Eventually, we can outsource work to them and they grow and get better. And then they can start creating their own works, and then it trickles down to the schools and now you've got a thriving industry. So that's the kind of influence I would like the company to have.

Mack Garrison:

I really appreciate what you were saying on the community side. It's hard to give back when everything costs money, but one thing you can always do is time and attention. And just giving your time back to people knowing that when you were their age or that early part of your career, that that's what you really just needed is guidance. I think that's really critical. And I don't know, I know our industry is so community-focused, everyone's so nice and I think a lot of people are interested in that. And so I hope more people are doing the same thing you're talking about.

Wes Louis:

Right. Yeah, my short ‘The Mighty Grand Piton’ was big for me. I think the biggest shame for me would be if no one from the Caribbean works on it. I mean, voice actors and musicians, all that kind of stuff is not a problem over there, right, but animation is an area where there isn't really a market

Wes Louis:

It would be great to have everyone at a level where we can outsource work, but i've learned making a series isn't straightforward

Mack Garrison:

Right.

Wes Louis:

I think if you can have people out there on our types of productions I think it would be super beneficial. I think the same thing happened with Flying Bark, with Rise Of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles series. Having that type of project forced them to level up. That show is incredible. Now they’re so good now they can do that stuff by themselves. You know what I mean?

Mack Garrison:

Yeah.

Wes Louis:

So yeah, that kind of actually triggered the idea. So I think me doing it, isn’t about money or anything like that, it's like you said it's about time. It's one thing you talk about and talk about, but then I'm like, "You know what, let's dedicate time to it and make sure it's done. And then let's see what happens at the end of the year." And if at the end of the year where they feel like we've contributed something to them and they've used our resources, and they're able to talk to not just me, but some of the other partners and get some insights on how things are done, And if their work levels up, then I know it's working and I know that we're doing the right thing.

Mack Garrison:

I love it. Well you'll have to give us an update when you come to Raleigh on where some of that stuff is in the process. This was a really great convo. Thanks for hanging out with me for a bit.

Wes Louis:

Nice one, man. Nice to meet you and thanks for taking the time to talk to me as well.

Mack Garrison 7/7/23 Mack Garrison 7/7/23

Meet the speakers: Aaron Ray

An interview with Aaron Ray: an animation director and designer with an inclination towards illustrative design and character based work.

Q&A hosted by Mack Garrison & Meryn Hayes.

Read time: 15min

Mack :

Hey Aaron, for folks who don't know who you are, a little bit about you and your background and what brought you into motion design as an industry.

Aaron:

So currently I split my time between doing freelance with studios, whether that's art direction, creative direction, or just doing style frames and stuff like that. But I also have a rep for commercial and music video direction, so I'm kind of bouncing back and forth between those things. How I started was early on when I was into skateboarding growing up, just seeing all the graphics and stuff. And this was late '80s and '90s, but specifically the late '80s stuff when I was a little kid, when I first started skateboarding, the graphics were so bold, colorful, gruesome, funny, detailed and illustrative. I had never really seen anything like that.

So I was like, "This is really interesting and I think this might mean I could draw for a living," that kind of thing. I just drew all the time. And then also going back to skateboarding more when I got a little older in high school and college, we were just filming everywhere we went when we were skateboarding. So I got kind of used to using cameras and the idea of editing a video and then probably somewhere out of there, I started to see title design and stuff like that.

I went to college here in Denver and I went to the Art Institute, which is now defunct, and I initially thought I wanted to make live-action movies. But all I had were drawings and my bad skateboard graphics and things like that at the time. I met with an admission person and she said, “maybe you should go into our new computer animation program.” And I said, "Oh, that's cool. That sounds kind of cool." And this was like '98, so this was early, Toy Story had just come out, Pixar stuff was just getting a name and becoming kind of popular, and so the program was really rooted in visual effects for film and 3D character animation.

And so I went into that program and I was pretty unhappy with it because it was very computer based and I kind of learned throughout my time there that I really like more hands-on tactile feeling work. And I liked more design focused work.

Mack:

Well, it's interesting to me. It's like, all right, so you're a kid, you're growing up in the '90s, late '80s, you're loving skateboarding, so it brings you in from the design side of it. And then I'm just presuming here that you started making little random fun skating videos that ultimately brought you into film. Is that right?

Aaron:

Yeah, I bought a camera, a mini DV camera or eight millimeter, and we would just go around filming and editing. I didn't have Final Cut or anything like that at the time. So it was like in-camera editing or eventually we got two tape decks, and I don't know if you've ever done that, but you can run the camera into one tape deck and you're sort of transferring it to another tape deck and a VHS. So you're doing the editing to a tape from tape deck to tape deck.

Mack:

That's so funny. Are you putting on the classic dad fade where you fade in and fade out at the end in-camera?

Aaron:

Always. Every time.

Mack:

So I imagine the skating stuff, I mean, it's funny how many people I feel like I've talked to that have gotten into this space through skating because really it was kind of pioneers for recording yourself and recording your tricks. And so it got you into that. That always feels very tactile to me. I mean, skating is just rough in and of itself. And the designs on the boards and the decks themselves are really graphic. And so when you get into, it was the Art Institute that you were in Denver, right. And so you get to the VFX, the 3D character animation spawned after Toy Story coming out, which makes a lot of sense because there's this new push and admiration for 3D. But it sounds like you weren't digging it, you weren't really wild about it, but you just kind of pushed through it and felt like, "Well, I just got to get a degree and get out of here."

Aaron:

Yeah, I mean, I got a lot from school though. I learned the tools, I learned After Effects. At the time we were using 3D Studio Max, so I got a good sense of using the tools and understanding 3D. I kind of forgot to mention, growing up, I was really into music, punk music and just independent music in general. And so even before college I was skateboarding and music was a huge part of my life. And when I was in college, it was kind of pre-motion design too. So there wasn't a lot of that. And I think what I was missing is I really loved record covers. I really loved skateboard graphics, I liked filming stuff, but I hadn't really been introduced to motion design yet. And so, I don't know, I think I burnt out and just couldn’t get excited about what I was seeing in school.

In retrospect, I can look back at it now. And the 3D character stuff we see now, I'm like, "Wow, that's so cool." I wish we'd been kind of pushed in that direction versus just the movie VFX and CG stuff.

But music and playing in bands was really a big thing at that point for me. So I wanted to be a designer in the music industry. I wanted to do album covers and stuff like that. So I got this position as a designer for a small record label, for literally no money. I worked there for about three years. But it was a great experience and worth it in the long run, it actually had a big impact on me.

But streaming music started to slowly take over, and you kind of see the writing on the wall that I wasn't going to be able to continue just doing album covers. And I think it was probably around this time that I first saw, you guys remember a studio called Shilo?

Mack:

Out in San Diego or something, right?

Aaron:

They were California and New York City. But they were amazing. I think that's the first time I saw work that I would've considered motion design. There was one piece they did in particular, It was this kind of white cityscape thing. No materials, just white and what do you call it, Ambient Occlusion And the camera's just moving through and it's got this really experimental edit. And there was just this cool hiphop kind of beat that everything was cut to, and there was typography integrated and there were hand drawn doodles popping out everywhere. I was like, "Wow, this is cool." And it was 3D and 2D kind of mixed.

Mack:

That's so neat. I do remember Shilo. In fact, they were an inspiration for me when I was in school. I was like, "Oh man, this place looks amazing. I want to go work here." It does feel like it's a good segway though, from album art into it, right? Because album art seems equally as weird, off the walls, could be a mixed media of a lot of different things.

I'm curious about your take on this, because you worked at that job where you said three years, the first one that they weren't paying you initially and then they're paying you a little bit. And there's a big conversation around the industry even today, right? It's like, "Don't take unpaid internships, don't do work for less than what it costs."

And then at the same time, I hear you say about how much of a big impact that made on you. I mean, I think about some of the work that Dash has done over the years that has opened the doors to other projects. And some of those projects weren't the highest paying gigs, but we said yes to it because they seemed cool. I don't know, just any thoughts on that idea in the space on balancing stuff that you're into versus saying yes to some things?

Aaron:

I think if there's a benefit to doing something for no money or low money, then I think it's worth it. But I think each person has to weigh those options. For me, I just knew working in music design is what I want to do and this is my foot in the door, so I'm going to do it and I'm going to work hard to do it.

I guess the point is I will do stuff for lower cost if there's a creative benefit or if it will help me learn something new etc.

I’ve had projects before where I’ve thought "I can't believe I'm doing this for this much for the budget, but I think I'm just going to, I'm trying to ignore that and just keep pushing through it because I think the end product's going to be cool." But again I think you have to weigh the pros and cons of each situation because just because you have a cool end product, that doesn't always mean more work or anything though right?

Mack:

I think you made a really good point, Aaron, that you have to judge it against what you're interested in, what you want to do. And something for someone might be too low, but for others it might be the right fit, because I've heard a little adage as well, it's like don't ever undercharge. But we get projects sometimes that look really cool. We want to say yes to it, but they have a third of the budget that we would normally take on. But if it looks cool, it's like, let's do it and let's make it happen. I think it's also a big difference though, in what you're out there to try to do. And I think one of the reasons I love the motion design industry so much is it's really full of passionate creatives.

I think at the end of the day, there is still this desire to make cool badass work. And not all the time some of these groups out there need a helping hand. And if you can do it creatively, I think that's great. So I think ultimately it just kind of depends on everybody kind of where they are in their life, what they want to do.

So, sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the story there for a bit, but it was really interesting. So you leave the record design stuff, you kind of see the writing on the wall, that might not be a long term endeavor, and you had just discovered (Shilo) and this amazing work they were doing the kind of mixed media stuff. And so at that point, you really didn't know too much about motion graphics or motion design itself as a field, correct?

Aaron:

Yeah, not a lot. I mean, maybe motion graphics was a term at that point, but I don't think I was too familiar with it. I guess around that time I was approached by somebody who knew this company that was looking for an art director. And so I interviewed there and I moved from the record label and I got a job at this other place and they were a parent company for a bunch of skateboard and youth lifestyle kind of brands within it. And so I was an art director there where I did snowboard graphics and apparel graphics. I did packaging for footwear and box design and stuff.

And that was also a really cool stepping stone I think for me, because again, I'm learning more about the print design stuff still, but it started to get bigger than just doing record packaging. I went to China to do press checks on snowboard graphics, I art directed national Ad campaigns. So I just learned I think my whole experience from college up through this job was just learning different things and they're all really interesting and fun. And maybe, I don't think I was thinking too much about the future really at this point. I was just kind of going along for the ride and everything was interesting. I was learning new stuff every day. But during this job we started creating more video content and stuff. And then I started getting back into using AfterEffects and then motion design. This is actually the period when I first noticed Shilo, but then a bunch of other motion design studios were kind of popping up.

So yeah, I started doing more After Effects stuff and kind of got back into it. And then during that time is when I, actually taking a step back, at the record label is where met one of the partners of my future company Legwork. Actually two of my partners. But I went to this other job and they went their own way and we kind of parted careers for a bit, but it was during this new job when we started talking again, and then we started talking about maybe starting a company.

Mack:

Oh, nice. Were you guys doing moonlighting on side projects together or was it always like, "We'd like to do that," and maybe this company Legwork, what it ended up becoming is how you could do that?

Aaron:

We probably spent six months to a year just planning it out, designing our logos and crafting our “brand”. We all kept our jobs while we planned it. We designed the initial Legwork logo and then we built our first website. We quit our jobs before we launched the website, And I don't know if we were doing any big projects at the time, I think we went cold turkey and quit our jobs and went right into Legwork. And for me it wasn't that big of a deal because I still wasn't making that much money, But my two partners left better paying jobs to start Legwork, so they had more at stake.

Mack:

You're like, "I'm already broke. Why not just keep doing this?"

Aaron:

I wasn't worried at all. So yeah, I kind of feel bad about that for them!

Meryn:

Do you feel like y'all had a certain dynamic? To start a business with someone that takes a lot on both sides. Do you feel there was, I mean obviously y'all thought about it because there was six months leading up to it. Was there a lot of thought in terms of what Legwork would become in those early days? Or was it just like, "Let's jump and we'll see where we land?"

Aaron:

Yeah, that's a good question. I think I was idealistic about what it would become or what we wanted it to be. And I learned later, maybe nine years later, that if I was to start a business again, there are definitely things that maybe should have been different. But yeah I think the three of us had a good dynamic. One of the partners I was pretty good friends with because I worked with him probably for a year or so at the record label, and we all kind of ran in the same circles and had a lot of the same friends. The other one I also met at the record label, but he was just a freelance website designer that would do stuff for the record label so I didn't know him as well. But all of us came from the local music scene. And so we weren't the best of friends, but I think we were good enough friends and trusted each other enough to be comfortable with it.

But again, I think we were not thinking that far ahead. I didn't think, "Oh, what happens if you get in a fight with one of your business partners or something bad happens?" In my mind I was just thinking It was going to be a small studio where we had cool screen printed posters on the wall. I was just thinking more about what it was, where I was going to be sitting during the day. Being inspired by all my design books around me and stuff. I didn't really think about the business that much. I just thought we were going to create cool work all the time.

Mack:

Oh my gosh, that's so funny. I did the exact same thing, Aaron, when Cory and I started Dash, it was like, "Oh man, it'll be so rad. We can just hang out all day. We can make cool stuff."

We didn't talk about the fact that we'd be nitpicking each other's emails on how we write to clients. I mean, it’s just dumb shit like that the first year of any studio as you're working through the business stuff has got to be honestly some of the toughest.

Aaron:

Yeah. Was it just you two at first for a while?

Mack:

It was, we just had the two of us, so there was no third party to make a decision, although I guess Meryn kind of came in and is kind of making some decisions for us now, which has helped. Thank you, Meryn :)

Aaron:

Yeah. Well, so the three partners' situation was what it was and it was pretty good. And I think the three of us actually made sense because I was kind of coming from video and animation and illustration and also print design. But then the other partner was a website designer, and so he knew the website design and development world. And then the other partner had a business degree and he was like at the record label, he kind of managed the books and planned tours that kind of stuff. So he just kind of had more of the business mind. So we're like "Oh, this makes sense." But the crazy thing is one year into that structure, I think it was 2009, we brought on three additional partners.

Mack:

What was the impetus for that? Just cool people that you wanted to bring on?

Aaron:

We needed to fill out what we were doing with additional skill sets. One of our friends was a really good developer, so we brought him on and then we didn't really have a sales person, so we brought on this other guy to run sales. And then we needed another developer at the time that did a different type of development. So we had a front end developer and a back end developer.

*“If This Then Domino’s” is a website that uses IFTTT technology that allows customers to automatically order Domino’s pizza every time a particular situation occurs.*

Mack Garrison: Interesting. So the early days, you guys, what's really interesting to me is that even though it was kind of like you didn't have a long term plan, you did have a lot of really talented people and even as a small entity, you kind of had these different divisions of the company where kind of people were responsible for. And so how would it go? Did you guys develop processes to work together? Would each person go do their thing and bring information back to the table? Sales guy's like, "All right, I got us a project. Who wants to handle it?"

Aaron: When I think back on it, I was the only one who wasn't really from the website world. And so I think in a lot of ways I was just sitting there kind of doing my own thing and if something came up where we needed to do an animation or an illustration, that would be what I would do. I also was handling a lot of the company branding stuff, so I was just working on the visual side of the company and logos and that kind of stuff. But yes that’s essentially how it worked, but really the 6 of us each made up one part of what a full team on a project would be - so in those days we all kind of worked together on each project rather than one person doing a project and another person on a different project.

Mack:

Interesting. So the early days, everyone has their job, their niche, they bring their experience they have to the table. Were a lot of your clients in the books initially? Was it more kind of in the music space or that same kind of stuff that you had talked about? You were in the kind of album artwork, there was skate stuff, the sort of punk side of things. Was that still a lot of the work y'all were doing in the early days?

Aaron:

Yeah, kind of. So I left my job, the place was called Collective, but I left that job on really good terms. So I gave them two months' notice. I said, "I'm quitting, I'm going to start my own company." And they were super cool and supportive and they gave us work. They had stuff to do that they couldn't really do internally anyway, so they just gave that to us.

One of the brands was this old, I’m sure you've heard of Airwalk. They used to be a legit skateboard brand in the '80s and early ‘90s, but then they turned into kind of an “affordable” mainstream brand, So they brought us on for the brand relaunch website which was a really progressive website at the time. That was one thing about Legwork and Matt Wiggins, who was our developer/partner, he's like this genius developer. Okay, sorry, side note: I'm jumping back again here because this is right when the first iPhone came out…

And the iPhone killed Flash. So Matt, and all these guys came from the Flash development world and the iPhone basically didn't allow Flash, so it kind of killed, developers had to switch gears and start using HTML 5.

And so Matt was such a genius developer that he started figuring out how to do HTML 5 websites that felt like Flash. So we did the first Airwalk projects. And it was just really cool and experimental, we were winning awards for it, and then we also won an award for our own website.

I don't think awards really matter so much anymore, but maybe they do more so in the web world. I'm not even sure these days, but back then, winning those awards, we won at SXSW for our website and then the Airwalk site won maybe a Webby or FWA I think. And that actually got us quick name recognition in that world. So we're definitely known as a web company initially and I struggled a bit because I was from the animation and design side. And it took us a long time, I think to even be known as doing animation. That was kind of an interesting journey for me personally.

Mack:

Well, I can imagine, because as anyone knows who's run the studio, there's ebbs and flows on different types of work. So you know, you may find that you're a particular type of designer, you're getting a lot of type of work coming in, but then there's a pivot and then you're kind of like, "All right, how can I help?" And you're in this kind of space to give me more work, why everyone else is overloaded. And that's going to be a hard thing to kind of navigate. So when you guys, you won, so really the growth came from winning some of these awards, getting the recognition with them, landing some other jobs and then landing those bigger jobs got you more recognition and it kind of became more of a snowball effect on how stuff came in. Is that more or less how the growth happened?

Aaron:

Yeah, I think winning the SXSW award for our own website, I think within a year we had a rep for the studio, like an LA based rep. And so they immediately introduced us to bigger agencies. And then we started doing a lot of work just with bigger agencies, almost right off the bat.

Mack:

That's really fun. Well, especially, I know there's a lot of folks out there who talk about whether they want to be repped or is that a good thing or a bad thing. It sounds like for you all, that was a real big key in moving forward and taking on some bigger projects was the award and then getting representation. Do you think that's accurate?

Aaron:

Yeah, for sure. I think times are, I know it wasn't that long ago, but I think times were different in the industry then too though.

I think the industry was less saturated with small and mid-size companies back then too. So I think we were a bit of an anomaly because we did interactive and animation. So that was definitely unique for the time. I even think now it's a little unique and I feel like if I do ever start another studio, I would probably do that again.

Mack:

I think being, at least from my perspective, is a little bit shifted cause we are a general studio. And so I like the idea, I mean, we're still in the lens of just animation or live action, but we still, we're not just 2D, we do 3D, we do a bunch of things.

I think variety is important, honestly, I think what keeps animators on their toes, you talk about your partners having to learn like HTML 5, kind of pivoting completely and then it discovers a new way of doing things. I think that's how studios evolve and last is you have to mix it up a little bit

Aaron:

Yeah, I think you're totally right. Having those two different disciplines when we were slow and on one side we could make up for it on the other side of the company. But in terms of the motion stuff, it was a gradual growth. And we got bigger and bigger projects on that side. And then I think by the end, it's interesting, I talked to a lot of people, some people knew us only as an animation studio then.

Mack:

Huh. Interesting. So, I don't want to spoil anything from your talk that could be coming up.

Aaron:

I think I've already spoiled half of it.

Mack:

Well good. Well, this will just be an accent then to what's coming up. So Legwork continues to grow. You guys talked about the beginning that you really didn't have any kind of a long term plan. It was just like, "Oh, we'll do this. This is good. Oh we'll do six partners, this seems good," right? And you grow a little bit. Did people kind of come in and out for a bit at Legwork? Did some of those partners stay? Was it kind of fluid where folks were coming in and out of the studio for a bit?

Aaron:

In terms of partners, we were pretty much all there until 2016. Having six partners sounds insane to me now, but we did a really good job of working together for that amount of time, which is a pretty long time for six people to stay friends and business partners.

In the beginning we didn't really have any employees. We had a couple interns, maybe a year or two years in, they came on And our first intern became an employee and was with us for 8 or 9 years!

And it's funny, I think one of our selling points early on, and this is no offense to producers because I fully changed how I think about this over the years, but my partners were like, "We don't need producers, we're a small tight-knit team. We're all pretty senior level at this point and we can just do the work. We can talk directly to clients." And I actually think a lot of our clients liked that. And I think that was a bit of a selling point for us for a while. But as we got bigger and bigger, we brought on bigger and bigger projects we brought on producers. And I would never do that again, I value producers so much now. It's insane.

Mack:

Well as soon as you spend 75% of your day writing emails instead of working, you're like, "Wait a minute. What happened here?

Meryn:

And a level of objectiveness that's just like, it's really hard to separate yourself from the art or what you're making and that layer from the client to you, a little bit of protection from yourself.

Aaron:

Definitely. Even now, just working as an independent, I have the producer at my rep company and he does most of the corresponding work. We'll do meetings, creative meetings and stuff like that. But when I do a check-in, I'm like "Here's my deck, here's my stuff for the day" and he’ll send it over. Often when a producer is the middle-person, they're just passing an email over and then getting the feedback. And sometimes that can get muddy if the producer doesn't communicate it correctly. But it's been great Rob the EP. And I actually really like that process because I can stay kind of focused on just doing my work.

Mack:

Well, there's a lot more to talk about here, Aaron, but I think it leaves a lot for what's to come, the presentation. And I know Meryn and I both really enjoyed chatting with you today and getting to know a little bit of background. I'm super excited to be hanging at the Bash this year.

Aaron:

Awesome. Cool. Well, thank you both very much. Looking forward to meeting in person and I’ll talk to you soon.

Meryn:

Awesome. Thanks, Aaron.

Mack Garrison 6/27/23 Mack Garrison 6/27/23

Takeover Tuesday with Mike Healey

An interview with Mike Healey: a director and animator based in NY.

Interviewer: Matea Losenegger.

Read time: 5min

Matea:

Thank you for taking part in our Tuesday Takeover series! Can you please tell us a little about yourself and your work?

Mike:

I’m a director/animator based in NY. I fell in love with animation at an early age watching stuff like PeeWee’s Playhouse and Space Jam. After graduating from NYU, where I studied Film/TV with a focus on animation, I founded //kneeon studios and have been lucky enough to be doing that ever since!

Matea:

Many of your projects are very striking and illustrative. Do you have a background in illustration and what was your path to becoming a successful art director?

Mike:

Thanks! I don’t have a huge illustration background but I am always checking out work by illustrators and designers and keeping an eye out for potential collaborators. Whenever a project comes up, I try to find the right fit stylistically and tonally, then reach out to illustrators I know or have been wanting to collaborate with. I love to concept work out with illustrators and then let their imagination run wild. I am a firm believer that two (or more!) brains are better than one, so throwing around ideas in the concept phase is really fun for me and there’s usually a nice blend of all of our ideas in the final product.

Matea:

Where does the name //kneeon come from?

Mike:

When we first started out, my former business partner and I wanted a name that evoked bright colors and fun, so the name Neon came up. Sadly that name was already taken so we decided just to spell it differently instead and then it stuck. Wish I had a better answer!

Matea:

What made you want to start your own studio and do you have tips for artists aiming to do the same?

Mike:

I graduated from NYU in 2009 and there were very few job opportunities at the time so I decided to try to start my own company with a friend. We had been freelancing throughout college and trying to direct and animate as many projects as possible before graduating so we already had some potential clients when we got out of school. I had an internship at a production company in my senior year and the producers there were super helpful and gave me lots of good advice on everything from writing decks to bidding to budgeting and producing jobs.

In terms of advice for those wanting to start their own studio, I would say make sure you have a pretty good grasp at the business side of things, or partner with someone who does. It’s also important to have some projects that showcase the kind of work you want to make. Doesn’t necessarily have to be client work—it can be a personal project or short film. But you want your website and work to be a reflection of your talents and give an idea of why a client may want to hire you over some other animation studio. Lastly, keep your overhead as low as possible for as long as possible. It can help you take on projects you truly want to work on instead of expanding too quickly and being forced to take on anything and everything.

Matea:

You've collaborated with many talented folks. How do you find artists and what goes into putting together a strong team?

Mike:

I always spend time (but not TOO much time) each day on Instagram, Behance and other sites. Whenever I see something I enjoy, I bookmark it. A lot of relationships with artists I have collaborated with have come from me reaching out to them when I enjoy their work. Word of mouth is another great way to find artists. I’m always asking friends and collaborators for any recommendations when I need some help with a project.

To put together a strong team, I think it’s important to find people you really enjoy working with. Many freelancers we have worked with have been with us on a ton of projects over the years so there’s a good short-hand between us. The best projects are the ones that don’t really feel like “work” and everyone has a creative say on.

Matea:

From sports to food/bev, retail, music, and more what is your favorite type of project to work on?

Mike:

My favorite types of projects to work combine sports with documentary audio. We have done so many sports-related projects that we recently started up a sports animation wing at //kneeon called Slam Dunk Club! I love being able to take interviews/doc-style audio and adding fun visuals to tell stories.

*Slam Dunk Club brings together a team of directors, designers and animators from across the globe.*

Matea:

As someone with a pretty diverse portfolio, is there an area of animation you would still like to explore?

Mike:

I’d love to work on some more long-form projects. We do a lot of work ranging from 15 seconds to 2 minutes in length, but would really enjoy making some longer films. We’re currently in the process of finishing up a 20 minute piece. And since my wife and I recently had our first child, I’d love to explore making some more animation geared toward kids!

Matea:

Your studio's work has a very distinctive voice. Where do you find inspiration and how do you make sure your work stays fresh?

Mike:

Thanks! I’m always trying to look at animation, design and art whenever I have a chance. It can be good to be aware of trends in animation and art so you know what to avoid to try to make something unique. And we try not to make something with the same style twice (unless of course it’s part of a series).

Matea:

As someone who's been in this game for a while, what do you think is in store for the future of motion design?

Mike:

There are always trends and advances in technology that will make animators’ lives easier, and some like AI that may make animators’ lives and livelihood more difficult. I’m not entirely sure what the future holds for motion design to be honest…I think there will be needs for more interactive animation and AR/VR as the tech catches up and becomes more mainstream.

Matea:

What does the rest of 2023 look like to you? Anything we should keep an eye out for?

Mike:

We have a long-form fully animated documentary being wrapped up and hopefully coming out sometime soon. Recently wrapped up animated segments for a documentary about J.R. Smith that just came out on Amazon Prime.

Mack Garrison 6/22/23 Mack Garrison 6/22/23

Meet the speakers: Sekani Solomon

An interview with Sekani Solomon: an award-winning Creative Director based in New York City

Q&A hosted by Cory Livengood and Ashley Targonski.

Read time: 15min

Cory:

So, you're kind of a unique case in that we were going to have you speak at the Bash two years ago, and it didn't work out in large part due to Covid. I think our readers would really love to know a little bit about your background.

Sekani:

I guess I was always interested in creativity and just arts in general. And so when I was younger, let's say around 10 or so, I was always drawing Dragon Ball Z, or cartoons, or my favorite anime at the time. And then when I was in high school, I was like, could I really perceive this as a career? It seemed like the answer was no. So I actually dropped art. And then around 18, we were rebuilding our school website, and I was like, well, I used Photoshop several years ago, maybe I could help with this. And then I kind of reentered the space, and saw that they had significantly more resources on the internet, how to learn this stuff. And it was suddenly a lot easier.

And so yeah, I just kind of jumped in and went crazy, just doing a lot of photo manipulations. I think back then that was the hype, and then decided to take that on the next level with learning After Effects. My mind was blown, because again, at that point this was a foreign thing that I'd never seen anyone do. It's always something I wanted to do, animate. So that was mind blowing for me. And then that evolved into Cinema 4D. That's when I started incorporating some 3D elements into the work. At that point, it was time to apply for college. And so growing up on a small island [Tobago], if you really wanted to have a promising career, at least in the arts, you have to leave. And I knew that.

So I started off actually not being convinced that I wanted to do art. I didn't think that could be a viable career option. So I applied to schools for a software engineering degree, and then actually switched to graphic design and then motion media after I discovered SCAD. I ended up getting the scholarship from them, because I had a portfolio of work already because I was just kind of obsessed, and doing it in my spare time. Got a scholarship locally from Tobago. And so I ended up going to SCAD, Savannah College of Art and Design in Georgia. And then during my time there, I had four internships before I graduated. I worked with Loyalkaspar, Gentleman Scholar, The Mill, and Imaginary Forces, and decided that Imaginary Forces worked similarly to how I did, where they wear a lot of hats and jump all around the production process. And then in 2018 I worked at Apple, so it was my first time working in house at a tech company, which was a whole new world. It was eye-opening because I hadn’t worked directly for a brand, and so seeing people at least there work less hours, and could value their time more with a higher day rate.

Sekani is an award-winning Creative Director based in New York City

Cory:

One of the things I wanted to ask you about a little bit was what drew you to move over in-house? It sounds like briefly with Apple, but more specifically I guess recently with CashApp and now Block. And what do you see as the pros and the cons of that approach? And clearly you've stuck with it for a while too, so is it something that you like?

Sekani:

Yeah, no, great question. I think seeing Apple was great, but at the time it didn't feel like someplace I would've stayed full-time, just because they're such an established company, and the checks and balances are so rigorous. Not necessarily ideal for me, but back of my mind, I was looking at what Microsoft was doing in the space. And I was like, wow, it's really cool to see a brand like Microsoft adopting this small New Age 3D motion design approach to showcase their work. It would be cool to begin to try to start something like that at another company if the situation provided itself.

And so later on that year at the end of 2018, I got a message on LinkedIn about this company called CashApp, which ironically I wasn't familiar with at the time, and I was at Buck at the time, and their offices weren't too far from each other. So I did a little interview over at the Square office and then walked over to Buck. And the conversation I had with them was just talking about where this brand could be and how we could interject 3D and motion graphics into it and elevate it. And the idea of being at the ground floor and being able to help shape something was really enticing. Though they had zero 3D pipeline, zero 3D infrastructure, there was nothing.

Sekani:

So literally starting from the ground level when you're talking about processes, even equipment, pipeline, everything had to be built from scratch. But I think doing that on top of having a brand that was very creative allowed a lot of flexibility.

Cory:

Yeah. A willingness to let you do your own thing to a degree, or at least shape some of the stuff, versus being stuck in the Apple way or whatever company it might be, right?

Sekani:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Which allowed me to express myself creatively while pushing a brand. And I used to do a ton of short films, or personal projects, just because I didn't feel like I could get my creativity out there. But now it's like I don't even feel the need to, because I put so much of that work into these projects.

Cory:

Can you talk to us a little bit about what is the relationship between Block and CashApp? I know that's sort of a recent development.

Sekani:

That's a great question because my role has actually changed. I no longer work at CashApp specifically, at some point we wanted to create a parent brand per se, just because the company was scaling and we had acquired a few companies, so we already had Square and CashApp, and we had a acquired TIDAL, the music streaming service, and then we had two of our business units called TBD and Spiral. And so we still had the Square name, which we called the seller business unit, so it wasn't really clear. So we figured maybe creating a corporate brand, to help kind of clear that up. Just to return ownership of the brands back to the business units. And so I was pulled into that project, which was a beast to say the least. But yeah, let's just say it was incredible, and I was the only 3D person on it per se, so I worked on the logo launch film, so it was a very intense project.

Coming from that, I was given a new opportunity to co-lead a new team, a foundational team that lives outside the business units, that work with all the business units at the company. And we're calling it Creative Studio . We created a film called Reimagine that encapsulates what the team wants to do with our partners, essentially reimagine what their creative can be.

Cory:

Oh, exciting.

Sekani:

Yeah, our first piece that we created. And I think it's going to be really interesting because obviously we've seen a lot of cool things come from companies, but typically they're outsourced. So this is a piece that was fully created internally, by internal designers, so quite excited about that.

Cory:

Yeah, that's a pretty big shift from walking into their office and having to build their entire infrastructure at CashApp, to now creating teams and overseeing multiple brands worth of content. That's cool..

Sekani:

Yeah, no, we pulled in some really talented folk recently, Chris Phillips from Buck, aka Phibs, used to lead 3D design over there. And Zachary Corzine, an amazing designer. He's decided to join us as well.

Cory:

Oh, cool. In your work with CashApp, and before Block, just knowing that that was a lot of time and a lot of work, were you involved with more than just motion graphics? How involved were you with things that were outside of the animation landscape?

Sekani:

A lot. From our investor letter that went out, doing the covers for those, I've done a lot of different projects, whether it be maybe a visual for an event we were doing, to animating on a campaign, to in-app imagery. There's a lot of diversity in the ways that 3D and design can show up, which was nice.

Cory:

Yeah. I've also seen that you've done a little bit of work with Maxon and C4D, showcasing things, and doing demos and stuff like that. How do you like working with them and how did that relationship form? A lot of people use C4D, but not everybody gets to go hang out with the people who make it.

Sekani:

Yeah. Actually, it's funny, in 2014, one of my college professors, he was supposed to speak at NAB and he couldn't make it, so he let myself and another buddy of mine, Jason Diaz, go, and we were these young kids presenting at NAB, and from there I had a relationship with them, and presented at a few SIGRAPHs after that, I think 2016, 2018, maybe 2015, and a couple NAB conferences as well. They're great guys, so it's always good to just have that platform to walk through the work and showcase things, which is nice. And obviously when you're a freelancer, it's a lot easier. But I haven't done one in a while, just because I think with the work that I do now, there's a lot of legal constraints and approvals I have to get to even talk through things externally.

Star Wars: The Last Stand is a dynamic, gritty, full CGI depiction of battle warn storm troopers facing off against an unknown enemy.

Cory:

One thing I noticed when I was going back over our last interview from 2020, was you and Mack talked a little bit about the NFT space, and I was just personally curious if your feelings on that have changed at all in the last couple years.

And you know, you were, I believe, and not to put you on the spot, but you quoted as saying they're not going anywhere, they're here to stay. And you might be right, but I'm just wondering if between 2020 and now, you've thought any differently about that, in our industry, you've got Golden Wolf getting acquired by Doodle and things like that. I'm just wondering where your mind is at with that sort of space.

Sekani:

Yeah, I do think they're here to stay, but the scale, as you can see, has dramatically changed. I mean, even though it did allow a lot of artists to make a lot of money at the time, a lot of it was just funneled by pump and dump schemes and bros using artists as a way to make money. And if you're fortunate to be used in that way, then good for you.

I think people really got tied up into this feeling that it was all about the art, which in retrospect, at least now to me, it's clear that it had nothing to do with the art, but the value that it could generate, which really just mimics the fine art world under all these Van Goghs and those types of pieces, people pay millions of dollars for them, not just because they're beautiful works of art, it's because they're very valuable pieces, and an easier way to store value then maybe it stocks or something else.

So I mean, I'm sure there are collectors out there that genuinely care about art, but I do think a lot of them are just doing it for monetary gain, which, it's fine, but I think we shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking this is just some liberating thing. And I think a lot of artists probably discovered that when they did their taxes.

Cory:

Yeah, no, that's really well put. I mean, it's no surprise it's the same shift that's kind of happened with cryptocurrency in general, and in some ways even calling it a currency these days, it's more like a stock. It's more like that kind of speculative stuff, which is, again, as you say, totally fine, as long as you know what you're getting into.

Sekani:

Yeah, no, exactly. And I think even Bitcoin per se, I think there is a lot of good utility, but no one looks at it for a utility. It's for the value or the money they could make. And it's like people make a use case for it, oh yeah, NFT has a utility. And I'm like, okay, so this puppy will grow ears and legs. I don't know. Me personally, I'm like, okay, this is just a way for people to make a lot of money.

Cory:

Yeah. I like what you said, if you manage to cash in on that, then good for you.

Sekani:

I've just seen a lot of good artists get looked over, haven't sold anything, and quickly I realized it had nothing to do with the art. But you know what, if you've become notable, it's just the real world art scene. It's nothing new here. People have been doing this for years, so it is what it is. But the thing that I always thought about was, I never saw longevity in it, and we just never knew where the space was going to go. I think 2021 was just a wild year. And even me, I was getting an immense amount of FOMO. I really questioned, what you're doing, it's like okay, you could just sell a JPEG for $300,000. Why am I doing this job? It was pretty wild to see. But who knows? I think for some people, that might be the type of thing that may not happen again. If you were able to cash in, then yeah, I think that's amazing..

Cory:

Well, there did seem like there was this really interesting inflection point where it was, you have all these artists who normally make work for other brands, and for commercials, and for advertising. And there was this period of time where they could just make the weirdest thing they wanted, whatever they wanted, and it could look crazy, and people were really into it.

Sekani:

Yeah. Because then, at that point, you're more so an artist. If you're a motion designer, at least to me, inherent in the world of design is communication and problem solving. This is like, if I'm just making art, that's more like, I don't know, an expression, or you're not necessarily trying to solve something specific. You're creating a story or a narrative, which I think is also fine. But yeah, I guess maybe I've just drunk the Kool-Aid too much. To see the amount of hours that I put into this craft, and at least the job that I do, I like the idea of building towards something. If I could tell the story of this product that could help change the way technology is operated, or better a product, then I like having somewhat of an outcome like that.

I guess maybe at this point in my career, I just like the idea of being able to move, because this is the thing, working at a company, when you work at a studio, you kind of deliver the work, and success is based on the craft and the messaging of the work. But the tech, you could put something out, you see all the metrics and you see how it performs, which I think puts a little bit more pressure, not for it just to be beautiful, but obviously for it to function.

Cory:

Yeah. That's a really, really, really interesting point. And especially when you're at a studio, you put out the work and then you move on to the next one. You never even have to think about that again. Whereas now you're building on top of the last layer, on top of the next layer, that kind of thing.

Sekani:

The craft and the quality is very important, but it needs to also be valuable. And that could depend on a lot of different factors, but it's just something that you have to think about. Whereas if you're a freelancer at a studio, you don't need to really think about it. It's more so a creative director's job, or someone else that's not working on the craft.

Cory:

Do you find your day-to-day these days mostly managing teams of other artists, or are you still getting in the trenches and making stuff yourself too?

Sekani:

I'm doing it all. I'm pretty much still in the trenches, still crafting stuff. I actually have a render going right now.

Cory:

Is that by choice or is that by necessity?

Sekani:

By necessity. This team is really small. The amount of work that we are tasked with is pretty insane. Right now we're working on a series that's minutes long and it's all 3D. But I think the technology that we're expanding on is really interesting. At least for me, it's like I have to be able to work at a macro and micro level. So think big picture about the story in the narrative, and then be able to massage the animation on a specific item or something like that. It's an interesting challenge. You have to wear a lot of different hats.

Cory:

Yeah. That's exciting though. Just to get in the weeds a little bit, out of my own curiosity, because I like Cinema 4D a lot. Do you use cloud render farms? Do you prefer one render engine to another? Or what's your sort of go-to with C4D when it comes to wanting to get the look that you're going for?

Sekani:

Yeah, well, I like Redshift just because I used to use Octane, let's say 2016. It was quite buggy back then, and Redshift came and it was super stable and it had all the tools I wanted. I also used to use V-Ray. So Redshift had a more familiar workflow just because they're both biased renderers, and they kind of have the AOV workflow that I liked.

I typically comp a lot of my stuff, regardless of how good the renderer is, I'll always put it in Nuke. And you can try to do something to push it. And so I usually could achieve the look that I want to, at least close to, between the combination of the render and doing some comp work. But people have been saying really good things about Octane lately, so I'd be curious to jump back into that world and see how it goes.

And in terms of rendering, we are recently just building out some new pipelines. We bought a bunch of computers, and we want to get everything that worked up so we could have just our own personal render farm. It's just easier for us too, because we get to keep all information on our servers and not have to extend notes of third party renderers.

Cory:

Good point. I'm sure there's a lot of privacy concerns with that kind of thing. Plus those cloud renders are great until they're not, and then you're kind of out of luck.

Sekani:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's just nice to be able to submit a render to deadline. Just don't have to think about - all right, I got to patch this up, to upload it, and yeah, it could get a little taxing.

I know AWS is developing new tech. You could spin up renders or render nodes directly in deadline, and then there's a render token thing that Octane uses, and it's going to be really helpful in the future where you could render things by blockchain technology, which is interesting. And everything's encrypted, so no one else can see the data, which is pretty cool.

Cory:

Are you mostly remote these days with Block and CashApp, or do you guys have an office presence at all?

Sekani:

Yeah. Well, it's fully remote, so you don't have to come into the office if you don't want to, but I try to go in at least twice or three times a week. We have two offices in Soho, one for CashApp and one for Square. But just after two years of working from home, it is nice to actually be around people, have a conversation with people and discuss things. And just even discussing creative: typing feedback or having conversations via Slack is good but also having to, “Hey, are you available for a call?”

It's just so much easier to walk over to someone's desk and have a conversation, you can point to the screen. So just getting some of that feeling is great to have in person than the rapport you build, and that camaraderie you get, it's pretty nice.

Cory:

I wouldn't mind asking you a little bit about maybe some advice for people who are up and coming in the industry. Do you have any pieces of advice or things that you did, you think, in your youth that you wouldn't do now?

Sekani:

I think it's good to start at a studio. I think if you find a good one, it's good to be staff. You get to learn a lot by working with a lot of people. Also, if you're in college, it's good to do internships, because it provides a more risk averse way to learn. I think when you're a freelancer, there's a lot more pressure for you to perform. And so if you're an intern, the expectations are different, it's like, oh yeah, he's an intern. We're not expecting anything crazy. So it's a good way to learn without the pressure.

Also, if you're a motion designer, I think it's better to narrow down your skillset a little bit. You're a 3D motion designer, which does both animation, or in design, design animation, or you do one or the other, or you're 2D, or maybe you do a little bit of after effects and 3D. It's hard when you say you can do both, unless you can really do both very well, and there's 100% people that can, but from a marketing perspective, it's easier to get yourself in the door with a few things. And when you get in there, you're like, well, by the way, I can actually do this stuff, and the other.

Always seek mentors of people you could ask questions to. And what else? Just make a lot of work, make the work that you want to create. But also, and this is a thing I see when looking at candidates, a lot of portfolios are just built on a lot of random tests, or a lot of abstract stuff, without the thinking or design behind it. And if you're looking purely for craft, then that's great.

Cory:

I do think that's one thing that, at least in the portfolios we've seen that come out of Savannah, that come out of SCAD, they seem to do a pretty good job of having students not only showcase the final product, but also showcase the thought process that got them to the final product. I don't know if that was the case when you were there, but it's something I've been impressed with, their program.

Sekani:

Yeah, no, I think that's really good. They really teach you the process of design, and that's where I learned a lot of my chops from, because I never took a 3D class when I went to SCAD. It was all about design and storytelling, and how to build a narrative, and ways to keep things exciting, and that type of stuff. So yeah, I think if you could have some of that process in your portfolio that could show that, Hey, I can not just make things, but I could think about it conceptually, and this all makes sense, then I think that makes it a lot stronger. In your portfolio, that is.

Cory:

That's interesting, yeah, that you learned the software on your own time, and learned more of that fundamental stuff at school.

Sekani:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. School I think is for learning some of the soft skills, and there's so many resources online to learn the software, but it's really hard to find a course that teaches you about the principles of design, and how they're applied, and storytelling. Those more nuanced things are more difficult to learn. And then there's a matter of taste. How you develop that over time. That just takes time. I mean, I think that's where, when you say this person's talented, I think some people innately have good taste.

Cory:

I'm just curious, out of your whole body of work, is there any project that you're the most proud of, or one of the most proud of, and maybe why?

Sekani:

I think the projects I'm usually most proud of, are the ones that, if I had an idea and a concept and I was able to execute on that successfully. Maybe my film, maybe Hidden, is always up there for me. I think I had an idea for a narrative and I saw it through, and I kind of made the whole thing myself, which was just in my free time. Which was interesting, because back then no one was really using models and cloth [like that]. And now obviously that's the trend. So you look at it now and it feels like what everyone else is doing. But I was fortunate enough to release that before it became a fad. But, I try not to be too precious.

Hidden is a short film about self appreciation.

Cory:

Yeah. Yeah. Well that's so important in the industry, you know? Can't be married to anything, especially if you're dealing with a client.

Because I also came from an in-house studio before working with Dash, and I think one thing I realized is, it's very easy for a brand to get stale or one track, because there's a point where you're focusing more on how much can you release, versus what's the quality, and what's the meaning behind it. So how do you continue to push the brand, and what do you think through when you're thinking about that?

Sekani:

I would say it's just about how the team is organizing the type of people that they're bringing in and just knowing what to keep in house, what to outsource. And at some point, if people just have to be honest, what can really be churned out? And sometimes it's better to put out less and have better quality than to just oversaturate the market.

Cory:

Great. Thank you. Well, this has been really great, thanks for chatting with us.

Sekani:

Yeah. Awesome. Thank you guys for taking the time to chat with me.