Takeover Tuesday with Eejoon Choi
An interview with Eejoon Choi: an LA-based illustrator and designer that loves ambient dreamscapes and cute little critters.
Interviewer: Matea Losenegger
Read time: 5min
Matea:
Can you please tell us a little about yourself?
Eejoon:
My name is Eejoon and I'm a Korean illustrator/designer based in LA!
Matea:
What is your background and how did you wind up in the creative space?
Eejoon:
I was first really drawn to art in middle school because I admired another student who always drew fanart of shows and KPOP groups during class. I also really grew fond of Adventure Time around the same time and wanted to draw things that people could equally enjoy! I continued to pursue art but it wasn't college, when I took an illustration class taught by Angie Wang, that I realized how diverse the creative world was.
Illustration for NPR CapRadio.
Matea:
Can you explain what makes editorial illustration different from other forms of the medium?
Eejoon:
With editorial illustrations, I think you really have to do more research to best portray a topic or a person properly. For me, the most challenging aspect is trying to find a good balance between reality and abstracting a narrative/concept into a single illustration.
Matea:
Do you have a different approach to how you tackle editorial illustration vs a motion design project?
Eejoon:
A little! I think my approach is somewhat similar but with editorials, I prioritize capturing another person's story or condensing a larger topic into one illustration. However, with a motion design project, I can break down different elements and tones of a narrative into multiple scenes that lead into one another!
Illustration for NPR NextGen Radio.
Matea:
I've noticed your work tends to have a surreal flair to it. How do you come up with ideas and stretch your imagination?
Eejoon:
I always go to classic children's books for inspiration! There's so much whimsy in children's books that's hard to find in other forms of media. The underlying warmth in each illustration is so tangible and being able to evoke such soft feelings while also being able to portray the protagonist's fears just through textures, colors and composition is a skill that I'm always working to improve.
Matea:
In a similar vein, where do you find inspiration and do you have any favorite artists that have influenced your style?
Eejoon:
I love Brian Wildsmith and Georg Hallensleben's paintings!! I also think Timothy Basil Ering's illustrations in The Tale of Despereaux left a huge impact on me as a child. I also find myself often going to Angie Wang, Jillian Tamaki, and Karlotta Freier for inspiration!.
Matea:
You've created a lot of cool work for NPR. How did you build that relationship and what's it like working with them?
Eejoon:
I applied to work on their Next Generation Radio project when they were collaborating with USC! I honestly feel so lucky that I've been able to work with them on so many projects and being able to watch budding journalists find amazing stories of people across the world!! The illustration team that we've built is so encouraging as well. The creative field can be quite daunting so having such a strong cohort of talented artists who put so much love into their craft is so amazing.
Matea:
If budget and time weren't constraints, what would be your dream project to work on?
Eejoon:
My own children's book!!! I love the medium so much and I've learned so much from them that I'd love to make my own.
Matea:
Do you have any wisdom for aspiring creatives and what do you wish you had known when you first started out?
Eejoon:
Gosh I feel like I'm still learning so much that I don't know if I have any enough wisdom to impart! I do wish I had more confidence to experiment with my art more when I was starting out. I have red-green colorblindness and it affected how I viewed myself as an artist. I was so focused on my disadvantage which made me afraid of freely letting my art look bad to learn and grow. So I guess I'd just tell everyone, including myself, to have more confidence!!
Another NPR NextGen Radio Illustration.
Matea:
Do you have any upcoming projects you're excited to share with the world?
Eejoon:
I'm working on an illustration series about my dog! My dog Lucky, who's been by my side for 14 years, passed recently. I've been grappling with this sense of loss like never before and I've been thinking of ways to channel it into my art to honor her and immortalize her forever. Because most of my work has been to capture a person's life, community, or work, I want to do the same with Lucky where you can really feel her presence and love in a series of illustrations!
Takeover Tuesday with Dee Divakaran
An interview with Dee Divakaran: a Motion Designer and CG Generalist based in Savannah, Georgia who comes from a multidisciplinary background in illustration, design, 2D animation, and visual effects.
Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi
Read time: 5min
Bella:
Thanks for joining us for this Takeover Tuesday, Dee! Please introduce yourself to the people.
Dee:
I'm Dee, a motion designer and CG generalist with a diverse background spanning multiple disciplines. Beyond the world of pixels and graphics, I immerse myself in the vibrant realm of plants. Being an avid fan of magical stories, the wizarding world of Harry Potter holds a special place in my heart. When not tending to my green companions or lost in captivating narratives, I channel my creativity into the art of cooking. Experimenting with flavors and trying out new recipes adds a touch of magic to my daily life.
Bella:
How did you find yourself in the motion design world? Did you always know this is what you wanted to do?
Dee:
My journey into the world of motion design has been quite an unexpected ride. Initially, I had no clue what motion design even meant, or so I thought. It was during my time as a visual effects undergraduate student at Savannah College of Art and Design that I stumbled upon my connection to this field. I had been training in animation before venturing into visual effects, and I realized that during my time as an animation student, I was taught the concepts and principles of motion design. Intrigued and drawn to the combination of design and animation, I then decided to pursue a minor in motion design.
The turning point came during the pandemic, the sudden changes in life served as a wake-up call, prompting me to reevaluate my priorities and career path. This period became a catalyst for rediscovering my passion for experimenting with design, illustration, and animation. I started feeling a sense of belonging in the world of motion design. What resonates with me in this field is the fact that I get to utilize my skills and draw upon my unique background. It's like finding the perfect canvas where I can effortlessly blend my multidisciplinary skills into a visual narrative. So, while I didn't always have a clear roadmap to motion design, being immersed in this creative space now feels like stumbling upon the ideal destination for my career and artistic journey.
A frame from Rickshaw Run: a 10-week mentorship program with The Mill and SCAD.
Bella:
How do you think growing up in Oman has impacted you and your work today?
Dee:
Growing up in Oman has left a lasting and positive impact on both my personal growth and professional approach today. Being immersed in a multicultural environment has not only made me comfortable with diversity but has also instilled in me a genuine appreciation for understanding various perspectives. The rich tapestry of Omani culture, with its blend of traditions and modern influences, has provided me with a unique lens through which I view the world. While I grew up in Oman, I was fortunate to have Indian values deeply ingrained in my upbringing by my parents. I feel that immersing myself in diverse cultures has enhanced my adaptability and refined my communication skills, enabling me to connect better with people from various backgrounds.
Bella:
Do you think getting a college degree in the motion design industry is important? How has it helped you?
Dee:
I don't have a definitive answer to whether a college degree is crucial in the motion design industry. Based on my personal experience and conversations with others, I've realized that there are several factors involved in this matter, such as learning style, accessibility, and an individual's background. From a personal standpoint, pursuing an education in motion design provided me with a clear sense of direction, which in turn helped improve and refine my skills. But it's essential to recognize that everyone's career journey is unique. I strongly believe that remaining open to learning and growth, utilizing every opportunity, and being receptive to unexpected options are key in this dynamic field.
Bella:
You have experience in a variety of different mediums. Which is your favorite to work with?
Dee:
Growing up, I didn’t have a lot of chances to take up any formal art classes. However, I loved to explore a variety of mediums on my own. As someone who sees art and learning as great ways to express myself and have fun, I find it challenging to settle on just one medium. When it comes to, learning about new software, exploring different techniques, or experimenting with emerging technologies, a commitment to ongoing learning allows me to adapt and refine my skills across various mediums.
Recently my focus has circled back to 3D art. I find the technological advancements in this medium to be very exciting, particularly the prospect of combining 2D and 3D elements. Inspired by films like 'Spiderman into the Spiderverse' and 'The Mitchells vs. the Machines,' my goal is to explore and integrate these dynamic techniques into my personal projects so that I can learn and grow from them.
Bella:
Are there any mediums or styles that you have yet to try out, but would like to?
Dee:
Absolutely! There are several mediums I haven't explored yet, and I feel a surge of excitement every time I come across another artist showcasing something new and inspiring to me. I have a particular fondness for cinematography and photography. Having explored these mediums in the past to enhance my understanding of composition, this experience has significantly influenced how I design and compose elements across various projects. Lately, I've been eager to revisit cinematography. I'm drawn to the idea of exploring storytelling on a deeper level through cinematography tools, such as composition, color, lighting, pacing, and more. There's a rich world to explore in this medium, and I'm looking forward to incorporating these insights into my current and future creative projects.
Bella:
What's the ideal project for you and why?
Dee:
In my perspective, an ideal project is any opportunity that facilitates the learning of a new skill or one that enhances an existing one. Even when I take up challenging projects, I find that navigating through stressors not only tests my abilities but also leads to valuable self-discoveries. I also firmly believe that learning is a lifelong journey that extends beyond an academic environment. Embracing this philosophy, I approach each project with an open mind, excited about the continuous learning and personal development it offers. For me, it's not solely about being an artist; it's about evolving as a person through the work I do. I'm excited to see the extent of my growth through each project and experience in the future.
Bella:
What motivates you/how do you keep going when feeling creatively burnt out?
Dee:
When creative burnout sets in, I've learned the importance of stepping away from work and immersing myself in other passions or engaging in simple tasks, such as taking a walk in the park. Although it can be challenging, especially when a lengthy to-do list is always looming in the back of my head, I've realized that this break is crucial for reigniting creativity and enhancing my overall productivity. By detaching from work and allowing myself moments like this, I create mental space for fresh perspectives and ideas. This time away acts as a reset button, enabling me to return to my projects with a renewed and clear mindset. Taking a break is slowly becoming a strategic move for me to accelerate productivity in the long run. However, I must admit that finding the right balance, especially in the context of time management and deadlines, can be challenging. Although I’m still refining this process, I still consistently find that incorporating moments of relaxation into my routine is the initial step toward overcoming creative burnout.
Bella:
What's your proudest moment in your career thus far?
Dee:
My proudest career moment to date is the unexpected opportunity to collaborate with NASA. As someone who has always been passionate about science, this experience has been a dream come true. It marks a significant professional milestone, as well as a deeply personal achievement that I never thought possible. I’m honored to have been part of the incredibly talented team that worked on this project and to have played a role in promoting NASA's ICESat-2 mission. The mission, abbreviated for Ice, Cloud, and land Elevation Satellite-2, plays an important role in our understanding of the Earth's changing climate. ICESat-2 utilizes laser technology to measure changes in ice and land elevation, providing critical data for studying ice sheets, glaciers, and sea ice. It also measures Earth’s heights throughout the year across diverse biomes, accounting for vegetation in forests worldwide. Being involved in promoting this mission aligns well with my passion for science, and it adds an extra layer of fulfillment to my work.
Make sure to check out Dee’s demo reel.
Bella:
Is there anything coming up that you're excited to share?
Dee:
I’m currently in the ideation process for my final graduate project. My plan is to experiment with the combination of 2D and 3D mediums, with the aim of integrating these elements into a visually captivating and cohesive narrative. What makes this project even more exciting is the integration of my experiences from internship, professional project, collaborations, and mentorships, weaving in a rich tapestry of skills and insights. I will be documenting the process on my portfolio website. I’m really looking forward to sharing the results and all the valuable lessons I’ll be learning along the way!
Takeover Tuesday with David Holm
An interview with David Holm: a 2D animation & illustration specialist from Detroit, Michigan.
Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi
Read time: 5min
Bella:
Thanks for joining us for Takeover Tuesday, Dave! Please give the people a lil' introduction!
Dave:
My Name is David Holm and I am an animator/designer at Boxfort, in Detroit Michigan.
Bella:
How did you get into motion design?
Dave:
I went to school for graphic design originally but always wanted to make cartoons and make short films.
The community college at the time didn't have any classes for 2d animation.
But towards my last semester I won a scholarship contest. Which gave me the funds to take a full year of extra classes. So I took Intro to After Effects and Advanced After Effects(taught by Steve Savalle at the time)
And those two classes really helped me use my graphic design and illustration skills in a new way.
Then a year after graduating college in 2012 I landed my first in house studio job as a motion designer!
A frame David’s reel.
Bella:
What's the workflow like when mixing 2D and 3D styles together?
Dave:
When I work with mixing 2D and 3D I usually like the 3d elements to ground the 2D animations. So the characters will be all 2D animated but the environment is all made in 3D.
I just think mixing the 2d/3d can give you a really unique look and results. I also really like using glass and reflections to get cool random light leaks.
Bella:
I love me a character made from an inanimate object- big fan of yours. How do you give personality to something that isn't a human?
Dave:
Thank you! I really have a wild imagination that lets me give random objects backstories and wonder how this character/object behaves in an animated world.
Every object in my house has been drawn with a face lol
Dave worked with his pals Gunner to create some animated stickers for a unique mint company called Flintt Mints
Bella:
Do you have a favorite project that you've worked on?
Dave:
My favorite project I've worked on is probably Recess or Half Rez, because we collaborated together to mix a bunch of styles together and made something that felt fresh and unique.
Bella:
Where do you find inspiration?
Dave:
I find inspiration in everyday life. I really benefit from going outside and just watching the plants sway in the wind. And see the wild life thrive and just live around us.
Also bringing a mini sketch book around and using it to do quick idea sketches on the spot.
Bella:
What are you most proud of in your career thus far?
Dave:
What I am most proud of in my career would be probably being able to successfully work as an animator/designer and pursue other hobbies on the side.
Recently I joined my friends band and being freelance lets me be flexible to do both. Also, contributing on the Dash Bash titles this year was a highlight too!
It was a dream project to work with Dash and have it be seen by so many creatives.
Frame from Recess, a Boxfort short film.
Bella:
What's it like working at Boxfort? Do you collaborate often with fellow freelancers?
Dave:
Working at Boxfort has been incredible, we have grown a lot in the last year and we have a lot of new creative energy. We do collaborate a lot by giving each other advice or suggestions. And we are also in the process of creating a handful
of new animated short films. We actually just released an animated short for the new Gunner School. You can check that out here.
Bella:
Do you have any advice for being stuck in a creative rut/how to get out of it?
Dave:
If I get stuck in a creative rut, I usually need to take a break from the screen and all technology. Taking a walk in the woods or a park helps me so much to give myself some clarity and motivation.
Music playlists that are made to get me motivated and stay creative help me a lot too. Also exercise a little will give your brain a boost. We like to play hacky Sack to break up the screen time. It gets your body moving and it's fun!
Bella:
Any final words of wisdom?
Dave:
Final words of wisdom would be to write down your projects/to do lists daily. Sketch ideas out instead of doom scrolling social media. Also, you should set aside a day to not be on the computer at least once a week.
Takeover Tuesday with Jordan Knight
An interview with Jordan Knight: a multi-media designer, animator, illustrator who has worked with clients all over the commercial, social media, and entertainment world.
Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi
Read time: 5min
Bella:
Thanks for joining us for Takeover Tuesday, Jordan! Can you please introduce yourself?
Jordan:
Hi! I’m Jordan Knight, I’m a motion designer based out of Brooklyn but originally from upstate New York and I’ve worked as a freelancer for the majority of my career. I am also queer, I like to bike (as a commuter mostly), love a painting exhibit (late 19th century is my favorite), and I also have a pet snake.
Bella:
How did you get into the motion design world?
Jordan:
In school I had much more patience for art and drawing than any other subject, and I loved movies. So animation felt like a convenient way to mix both of my interests. I went to SCAD for an animation degree and when I was 90% of the way through I took an intro class for After Effects and only learned then about motion design. I thought there was so much more room to grow as an experimental designer in that industry, which I eventually realized was such a huge priority for me in my own creative process. So I made the choice to switch gears after graduation. It took a few transitional years of working as a graphic designer for bodegas and bars, as a studio manager for a small agency, and then slowly working on my after effects confidence on the side to get to a point where I felt I was ready to try taking on a freelance job. I made a lot of mistakes, but I learned a lot in that process and I think I grew the most in my skills as an artist, as a professional, and as a person, by taking that leap into freelance.
The best Motion Design quote ever from Jordan’s Grandpa.
Bella:
Do you have any advice for other artists who are trying to go full-time freelance?
Jordan:
This is sort of advice for anyone, not just freelancers, but don’t have any shame about sounding stupid when it comes to asking questions. Books and blogs are great resources, but building real life connections to talk about rates, contracts, new technologies, is going to be your most valuable resource throughout your career. I’ve learned so much about technique and insider tips by asking other artists out for coffee, going to workshops, and community events. As a freelancer staying organized is also extremely important. Keep track of your invoices, your contacts, emails, projects, backups of those projects. Life is so much less of a headache when you know where to find everything. This advice comes from some of my biggest mistakes throughout my early career, so set up goals and learn early, and keep learning to stay relevant and engaged with the industry. Oh, and taxes are just so much easier with an accountant, it’s worth it and a write-off.
Bella:
As a multi-media designer, you have mad skills in multiple different areas. Is there a certain area you prefer to work in? Like animation over design or directing, vice versa?
Jordan:
I’m very much a conceptual thinker so I do typically prefer to spend the most thought and care in the design department. Unfortunately, advertising hasn’t always allowed for that kind of time and money so I often use a lot of my down time to explore design techniques and style.
Illustration titled “Moth.”
Bella:
Where do you find inspiration?
Jordan:
This is where living in NYC really has its perks. We really have some of the most amazing museums in the world. A couple of my most frequented include Poster House, and of course the MET. Walking down most New York streets is an absolute advertising vortex of posters, video installations, stickers, murals, made by incredibly talented artists. I’m also really big on Sci-fi and horror films so older special effects really have a soft spot in my heart. A couple years ago I bought a bunch of Heavy Metal magazines from the 70s-90s and I absolutely love the variety of illustration work in there and always look back to find cool drawing inspiration. Lately just a shadow hitting the sidewalk in a strange way will spark my interest and I’ll wonder if I could distort it, stack it, cut it up and collage it, and find use for it in a design.
Bella:
How does your creative process for client work differ from the process for a personal project?
Jordan:
I think professionally as an animator I’m very outcome oriented. I have a deadline, a structure, and a good sense for how I am expected to execute in a timely manner. My own projects are much more chaotic and I often don’t know what I’m making until I’m surrounded by scraps of doodled on papers, made three new pinterest boards, and bought a new stupid thing on ebay that I’ve convinced myself is the answer to all my creative blocks. But it works for me!
Frame from “NYC Votes.”
Bella:
I love the collage style that you've used in several projects. What's the best way to approach animation for this style?
Jordan:
My biggest focus is making something digital look tactile and handmade. I have TONS of stockpiled textures that come in handy for this and I often make many of my own. I’ve got probably ten different saved expressions for giving a gritty stop motion feel that I use interchangeably. I also think starting the design process by hand and then finding a way to adapt digitally second allows me to be more expressive in the initial stages and leaves me more room to explore what sort of motion would work best with a specific style.
Bella:
What would you say to someone who is trying to "find their style?"
Jordan:
Frankly I can’t even confidently say I’ve found my own, and I may never commit to just one. I think I feel very comfortable with that. Some people really find a style that works for them and that's great. I don’t think finding a style is always necessary. It certainly has benefits as a freelancer to brand yourself to a type of work but I’m definitely a person who loves exploring different mediums. Although I’ve sort of been known for my collage work I am definitely constantly evolving that style into something different. So my advice is just make what you want to make, whether you want to stick to one style or not, that decision will come later and it will come organically.
Bella:
I'm sure it's difficult to choose, but do you have a favorite project you've been a part of?
Jordan:
I had a lot of fun working on Paris Hilton’s documentary. While I was animating on that I shared a coworking space with Miguel Hernandez, the illustrator on the project, and we had such a blast working together. He had me help out with illustration tasks, which isn’t a skill I often get to flex as primarily an animator, but I had so much fun with it. Every week he’d lend me a ton of art books and graphic novels from his collection that I’d spend every night absolutely devouring, so I got to learn a lot in that time on and off the project. Even when deadlines were tight and overwhelming, Miguel made the process fun and easy.
I also found out later that I had indirectly worked alongside my current partner, an assistant editor on the project, who I hadn’t officially met until two years after the release. So shout out to Paris Hilton for the matchmaking.
One of the scene’s from the Paris Hilton Documentary Jordan worked on.
Bella:
Any projects that you're excited about?
Jordan:
I just finished up a really fun project with the absolutely wonderful team at Mighty Oak: NYC Votes!
Also keep an eye out on my instagram @jjknightart for more work!
Takeover Tuesday with Jardley Jean-Louis
An interview with Jardley Jean-Louis an NYC born multi-disciplinary artist living and working in Queens.
Interviewer: Matea Losenegger
Read time: 5min
Matea:
Hey Jardley! Thanks for lending us your time. Can you please introduce yourself?
Jardley:
Hey! I’m Jardley Jean-Louis, I’m an NYC born multi-disciplinary artist living and working in Queens. I work in illustration, animation and film and center my work on depicting stillness, education, and under-represented identities and subjects.
Matea:
What inspired you to become an artist and how did you get into the motion design space?
Jardley:
It’s funny, I’ve been an artist since I was a kid and was going to say nothing inspired me because this is how it’s been forever. But I have a memory of being really young and there being a boy who was a really great artist in the class, me aspiring to be that good and taking him on as my mentor. So, that kid and my perseverance to get really good.
In terms of motion design, I think in the back of my head while I was pursuing just art, I wanted to get into the animation space. As a kid that meant the goal of having my own show on Nickelodeon and a film for Disney when I grew up, and later and more concretely, learning more about motion design as an Illustrator’s Assistant for a one-person animation studio while in college. That was my first art job. While my role there was to produce character/background design, the CD also invited me into the depths of script-writing, storyboarding, and animating background characters. Getting that well-rounded experience and seeing the final animation which felt like magic to me, was enough to start me on my own journey of honing my animation skills and looking for my own clients.
“Mementos.”
Matea:
How would you describe your artistic style and what are some key themes and messages that you explore in your work?
Jardley:
My work is very character driven and intent on building a mood especially with lights and shadows. I also without intending to, use a lot of deep rich colors. I work digitally these days, but my work has been described as painterly - which is great to hear because my foundation is in traditional painting and drawing. So, that’s unintentionally translated.
The key themes and messages I explore in my work are quiet life moments that speak to the reality of life, education, and under-represented identities and subjects.
Matea:
Can you walk us through your creative process? How do you come up with new ideas and what techniques do you use to bring them to life?
Jardley:
On both client and personal work - the creative process is dictated by the brief or idea and what mood and feeling the work is trying to convey. On client projects I’m zero-ing in on the themes and message the client has shared with me and the key words in the script that define each scene. On personal projects, I have an idea and I’m looking to draw it out through thinking of what type of composition and lighting accentuates it.
An exercise I do is dump every idea (including a ridiculous idea) onto my notebook. I believe that writing every single idea, not criticizing it, and therefore dismissing it, frees your mind to be more creative and find its way to a strong concept. If you’re constantly cutting an idea off at its legs, you won’t feel safe enough to explore and trust you’ll find an idea.
I then work through concepts by sketching them out and writing questions I have for myself. I find the notes especially stimulating.
I also review my long list of Flickr reference images and spend a lot of time on Behance looking for inspo.
“Friends”
Matea:
How different is your approach to client work vs your personal projects?
Jardley:
Well with client work it involves more pre-production than I do in my personal projects. That involves deciphering the script or brief and providing tangible materials such as moodboards, sketches, style frames or mockups, and storyboard animatics. In my own work I do less of that - the tangible materials. I’m typically holding an idea and composition in my head. I’ll look at a ton of reference images and then go straight into creating it in photoshop or after effects when the pieces feel right. For both, I also am finding the color scheme while I’m working - most times I have an idea of colors, but it’s not settled until I’m working on it.
However, since my recent solo exhibition, I’ve started to see the reason for sketches in my own personal projects. It helps to remind you of what the composition is meaning to be and by having it out on the paper, you’re able to see if it’s working or not rather than just going straight to final. Finding out the imagined concept didn’t work bit me in the ass one or twice on this solo.
Matea:
Huge congratulations on your recent solo exhibition "Joy - This Place I Land." What was that experience like and are you interested in working on more gallery work?
Jardley:
Thank you! The experience was incredible, I’m glad. I was selected as a ARTWorks Fellow for Jamaica Center for the Arts and Learning’s 10 month residency and the solo exhibition came from that.
So it was a 10 month process of figuring out what scenes best represented my theme: what does joy and thriving look like in everyday life. Especially being Black.
Originally I had 6 pieces + an animation I planned, but upon revisiting the gallery space and seeing how much space I had, I added 2 more illustrations. Getting to show what joy is for me, which is really just love in life moments and witnessing how much it resonated with folks meant a lot to me.
I’m not really interested in becoming a gallery artist. I’ll have my work in shows here and there as long as it makes sense to me. Same for residencies. I’m not actively pursuing either. I view it as avenues that are available to me as a creative. Never just confined to one avenue.
“Bart Simpson”
Matea:
I know it's difficult to choose, but do you have a favorite piece in the show and what makes it stand out in your mind?
Jardley:
I have two pieces that stand out for me. “Heritage” for its family ties, warmth and sense of just belonging and “To Be With Friends.” for all the love, lightness, and thriving I continually want for my life.
Matea:
Where do you get inspiration? Are there any particular artists or movements that have impacted your work?
Jardley:
I get inspired everywhere. Walking around and looking at things, overhearing conversations, being with people, looking at the work of fellow creatives, taking in my apartment, processing my life, tv shows/films.
Artists that heavily impact my work are Rebecca Mock and Katharine Lam. Particularly for creating a mood and for their use of lighting. Also Pat Perry, for the still and simple moments of life.
Matea:
How do you stay motivated to create your own work in addition to client projects? Do you have any tips for burnout?
Jardley:
I won’t say that I consistently create my own work and do so alongside client projects successfully. I don’t have a routine. Sometimes it happens that it’s a particularly slow time so I have room for my own work, or there’s an idea I want to get out, or mentally I’m in a space to put the work in and things just flow then. I try to honor where I’m at. I guess I stay motivated because producing client work isn’t my end goal for my career. I want the ratio to skew wherein majority of the time, the work I’m producing is mine. It’s what I’m known for and it’s how I make a living. I still plan on working with clients, but I think my voice and creative project being the end goal is more fulfilling.
For burnout, my tip is to honor it as best you can. When I was a permalancer, that meant speaking up that I was taking some mental health days for myself. When I’ve been working non-stop on client work that means taking as much time as I can in between client work. If I’m on deadline, but am already burnt out and a concept isn’t coming or my brain is frying, I try to take chunks of time during the day to just chill out. Honor it as best you can.
“Heritage”
Matea:
Any upcoming projects you're excited about?
Jardley:
I recently wrapped up an animation where I was the illustrator on it which I’m excited to see in its final. It’s about the stained foundation of America.
I have a personal short film animation that I’m currently researching and world-building on on the early years of the AIDS epidemic and Haitians.
Meet the speakers: Amanda Godreau
An interview with Amanda Godreau, a Puerto Rican multidisciplinary artist. Through bold work, Amanda lends her creative vision across multiple mediums, showcasing her appreciation for the beauty of design throughout unique spaces.
Q&A hosted by Meryn Hayes and Ashley Targonski.
Read time: 15min
Meryn Hayes:
Amanda, welcome. For those who don't know you, I'd love it if you could give a quick intro and how you got into motion design.
Amanda Godreau:
I got into motion design completely by accident, which is something that I always love to tell people. I think once you're in it, you really start to see that it's everywhere. I went to college originally for coding and then transferred to college in Florida for graphic design, and they just so happened to have one of the best motion design programs there. And a really talented professor found me, and said, "You need to change careers."
I was like, "All right." And it was just, it's been a whirlwind since. I feel like every single year I've learned something really different.
Meryn Hayes:
I think many people can relate to finding their way into this industry. I think this industry gets people from all kinds of career backgrounds, which I think is one of the really unique things about it.
Amanda Godreau:
I completely agree. I think throwing out the plan has been such a good thing for me. I think even as of six months ago, what I had planned just completely flipped. And I think learning to embrace it has only been to my benefit. It's been to the benefit of people around me, and I think it should be discussed more. I don't think you can plan for most things in life.
Meryn Hayes:
Absolutely. Well, that leads really nicely into my next question; so you graduated about a year ago, right? Did you have a lot of expectations of what was going to happen after graduation? I mean, what was the plan?
Amanda Godreau:
I feel like I wasn't entirely sure what I wanted to do when I graduated. To be completely honest, I didn't even know if I wanted to continue in the same field. I was heavily considering shifting to another industry altogether. And I knew the one thing in my plan was to rest. I came out of art school extremely burnt out. And that's something that needs to be talked about more. There’s something that TJ touched on last time at Dash Bash, I remember being a student watching his panel, and that it was a very big moment for me. I remember thinking "Someone who has been in this industry for so long is acknowledging it, I need to pivot and think about how to build rest to what I'm doing."
That was the plan post-grad, was to rest, and recharge because I knew that the aftermath of being so heavily focused on my career. To be able even to say you have a career in college is crazy, right? I realized I needed to allow myself time to be a 20-year-old in my early twenties, and as a result that’s been really beneficial to my career as well, I think.
Meryn Hayes:
That's so important because as we all know, finding inspiration in your art, in your work has to happen outside of your computer, outside of your desk. Being inspired by things, having a life, and especially at a young age. Feeling like you have the freedom and ability to find who you are because at that age you're still figuring out, "Who am I?" I mean, I'm still figuring out who I am. You need space in your life and to not have everything planned out in such a way that it constricts you from figuring out who that is before you really even started.
Amanda Godreau:
Yeah. And that's all to the benefit of the art. I feel like the moments where I had the hardest time making art, creating art, and making art that I was proud of were the moments where I was pushing myself so much that I had nowhere to draw from. If you're not connected to yourself first, you can't make something that's supposed to connect with others. So, I laid aside any professional aspirations I had. Including what studios I wanted to work with and what I wanted to do. I laid it to bed five to six months after graduating because I realized that even if I could do it, I was really going to enjoy doing it. And ultimately, I feel like enjoying the art you're making and your work is the top priority.
Meryn Hayes:
Yeah, absolutely. And in terms of finding your style and what brings you joy and the work that you do after graduation, what was your approach to finding that?
Amanda Godreau:
Finding the work that I enjoy making, I think, for me, has had to do with connecting with so many different people and so many different types of artists. My number one goal this year was to chat with people, learn, and view outside of my lived experience. And that inspired me to make many choices in how I approach my art. I was really fortunate last year. I got to go to Portugal for NFC Portugal. It was just this gigantic NFT conference, no motion designers, I think I was the only of the few ones there.
Even though personally I'm not active in the NFT community, I got to chat with people who are so invested in it, and at the end of the day, everyone's making art, right? Connecting with just people as artists outside of a commercial or traditional background has been so valuable.
Something I started to do as well was to connect with smaller BIPOC and female-owned brands, and I've been working one-on-one with a couple, developing renders pro bono, and just making art with women that I connect with. And that's been a really good way for me to give back, push my creative vision forward, and also feel like I'm doing meaningful work that serves an ethical but also spiritual purpose for me. And that's been really good.
Meryn Hayes:
That's amazing. How were you making those connections with artists after graduation?
Amanda Godreau:
I was chronically online in undergrad; a lot of these connections were friends or people that I had connected with during this time when everyone was online because of the pandemic. I've gotten to travel so much and be like, "Oh my God, we've known each other for four years; we've never met, let's hang out," And that's led to even more connections and more people. And I feel like it's snowballed into this gigantic network of people that I feel like I've known for years, and also simultaneously feel like I don't know it all.
Meryn Hayes:
I think that's one of the things that I am just so appreciative about this industry and this community is that willingness to just chat. I mean, my background is in photography. I ended up here because I found myself at a marketing agency here in Raleigh, which is where I met Mack and Cory who founded Dash. But before I joined, I had been involved in animation and live-action projects, but this whole motion community was completely over my head. And so, as soon as I joined, I just realized how kind everyone was and willing to share their experiences, which I just feel is pretty rare in most industries, but especially in art. I just can't imagine photographers, I don't know, sharing their problems or I just think it's a really special place to be able to find that.
Amanda Godreau:
I agree. I think this community is extremely generous. I think this community overall is extremely humble and I think it's really open. I think there's a lot of room for people to grow in all sorts of directions and I feel like you can almost always find someone to relate to in at least some sense. And everyone's cheerleaders for each other. I don't think, at least the people I intentionally try to connect with and stay in touch with, I feel like everyone's so proud of each other at the end of the day, not just for professional reasons, but for artistic reasons, right?
Something I've tried to make a very different distinction this year is the difference between being a designer and being an artist. I think before this year, I would be a designer and people would ask me, "What's your style?" And I'd respond by saying, "I don't have a style. I follow a brief. I'm a designer, I'm a problem solver." This year I'm getting to explore an artistic side of myself and acknowledging that side, I wasn't open to it at the time, and just starting to understand the difference has been a really big conversation among a lot of people in the community. I think it’s been a really great one.
Meryn Hayes:
Absolutely. I mean, again, going back to your whole life, you're given briefs in college and growing up, about who you're supposed to be or what you're supposed to be doing. And so, for the first time, you're actually trying to figure out, "Who am I?" Both personally and artistically. So, really giving yourself that space on both sides of that coin is just so important.
Amanda Godreau:
Yeah, I agree.
Meryn Hayes:
So, timeline here, so you were in the middle of college when the pandemic started?
Amanda Godreau:
Yeah, I was in my sophomore year. I had done one year in person, at that point II had done one semester of After Effects and one semester of Cinema 4D when then the whole world shut down. That was completely unexpected.
Meryn Hayes:
Yeah. And so, how do you feel, I mean, it's all you've known, so hard to compare, but how do you feel that changed your trajectory of what you were learning or how you were learning or learning from other students?
Amanda Godreau:
I think it completely changed the trajectory of my career for sure. I think as for socially, I don't think it left me with much of a college experience or much ability to connect with other people, but that's a completely different topic in itself. I think what that period of online learning gave me was my career. I started freelancing full-time after my second internship. I completely attribute that to the amazing opportunity that Gunner gave me. They hired me as their intern that summer. I wrote them this very dorky email being like, "I really want to work with you guys, and I can work remotely. I'm super good at it, I promise.
I was able to freelance every single year after that. I think about my choice of going freelance after college versus taking a staff job often.
Had there been more in-person opportunities to be in a studio with people collaborating, looking over monitors, going staff would've been more of a consideration for me. But at the end of the day, when I graduated, everything was still Zoom-oriented. I felt most comfortable staying freelance and meeting new people and teams.
Meryn Hayes:
Yeah, that's really interesting. We were down at SCAD at CoMotion back in March and talking to students who are about to graduate and obviously, there's a lot of opportunities going in staff or freelance and trying to give them some advice about options. And I always like to be very clear that I only have ever done 9-5 staff jobs, agency jobs, or in-house. So, I don't have the freelance perspective of freedoms, so I can only offer it slightly one-sided, and I hate to sound like Boomery, but I just know that early in my career I learned so much by sitting at a desk next to somebody just looking at asking questions, looking at their screen.
And so, part of me just feels for students who are graduating who don't have opportunities like that, or like you said, even now a lot of staff jobs are remote or hybrid and that's like, "Why am I going to go into the studio to then remote into somebody in Wisconsin or California?" And so, just finding out what people want to get out of that first experience after college and trying to find whether that's freelance or staff.
Amanda Godreau:
I think the industry, in general, is going to find itself with a very different type of workforce because of this, I personally have the opinion that it ripples down 100%. You have people two years before me, so many people who graduated in 2020. The industry was so focused on just how to switch and not lose these giant pitches and how we work, which fair, needed to happen but left a gigantic question mark on how students and upcoming graduates view the industry.
Meryn Hayes:
Good leading question. I was going to go, "How, Amanda, do you fix it?" But you're going to tell us in at the Bash.
Amanda Godreau:
Going back to Ringling in March. I found a lot of good insight. I did this amazing long two-day portfolio review with Doug Alberts from Noodle, and we got to talk one-on-one to students, and I really asked them, "How do you feel about this community? How well do you feel about jobs? What's your experience? Do you feel prepared as a senior?" And I got to get all this amazing feedback that I think is really informing how I'm trying to shape this presentation.
I had an existential crisis when you guys asked me to speak because I was like, "How am I supposed to speak to a room of people who have decades of experience over me?" I think my art is awesome, I'm my art's number one cheerleader, but we're in this very interesting time where there's so much more conversation to have about what we can do to support the youngest people in our industry and how that is essential for the better of everyone. That's what I'm interested in right now.
Meryn Hayes:
I mean, well, now I feel bad that we caused an existential crisis.
Amanda Godreau:
No, it was a good one.
Meryn Hayes:
Okay, good. But I think we would be remiss to not think about the younger generation. I mean, there's two schools of thought that we need to figure out how people retire in this industry. That's a whole other thing. But on the other side of that coin is figuring out what has changed in the last two, three, four decades as people have come into this industry. And hearing from people like you or others who are just getting into it. I mean, you have a valuable perspective, and if we don't account for both sides of that coin... We need to figure out how to include all of those ideas.
Amanda Godreau:
Yeah.
Ashley Targonski:
I think what's great about what you're talking about is it's a perspective that not a lot of our other speakers have because they have been in the industry for a while. So, hearing from someone who is newer in the industry, you've gone through all of this, I think it's going to be so interesting to hear you talk about that. And I think that's one of the main reasons we're doing this conference is to have real talks about the industry and really dive into these topics that you wouldn't normally hear.
Amanda Godreau:
I really struggled with figuring out what to talk about because, ideally a presentation, a 40, 50-minute presentation about my work would be amazing. But if I have faith in myself that I'm going to have a very long and probably great career, there's going to be so many more opportunities for me to do that. I think right now, we have a gigantic young workforce that really needs their voice to be heard. Even though this is just my perspective and my interpretation, hopefully, it's a great starting point to get the conversation going. That's my goal.
Meryn Hayes:
Yeah, I love that. Getting back into some of the work, what was it? So, you started doing graphic design when you switched to Ringling, and then a professor pulled you into animation, and pretty immediately, you headed to the 3D space?
Amanda Godreau:
No, I think we did 3D in our second year. So, the year that the world shut down in the spring, we took one introductory 3D class that was mandatory. I didn't even know 3D existed. I just fell into the course, and I was like, "Oh, this is so amazing."
Apart from coding, I was really invested in photography. When I started using 3D and Cinema- 4D, it felt natural. I could understand light, and the physics of it because I'd had to think about strobes, posing, etc. It felt a lot more familiar to me than traditional After Effects animation. I've always considered myself a designer, and I felt like there were infinitely more possibilities for me to design in a 3D space than a two-dimensional one without having also to animate. Animating is cool, it's just not my first love.
Meryn Hayes:
I love that. And I mean, it definitely seems like a natural progression of where your interests and your skills lie. And so, heading into a 3D direction, how have you been able to find clients as you started freelancing?
Amanda Godreau:
I’ve been really fortunate to have had an amazing and generous network that got me up an running while I was in school. It was a very, I think, organic thing. Post grad I’ve enjoyed collaborating with the small businesses that I've been working with independently and that’s been a different experience. It’s a very meticulous, and consistent effort. I have this gigantic spreadsheet, and I did so much outreach trying not to sound like a spam email, essentially me being like, "Hey, work with me. I won't charge you or I'll charge you pennies." And they're like, "This isn't real."
I think I get a lot of young people who are still in college or while I was in college and they're like, "Would you recommend me going freelance?" And I would always say, "Absolutely not unless you have a big network of friends and colleagues” it’s a risky career move that requires you to be savvy not just creatively but financially.
Meryn Hayes:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's why I got to think, again, as someone who hasn't freelanced, that just so much of it is about the connections you make. And so, going freelance right out of college to be really successful has to be a challenge. And the amount of connections that it takes and the outreach and the upkeep, I mean, those are just things that they weren't teaching when I went to college. And I just have to think a part of, as you say, as things shift with this new generation, how we teach them has to change too. It's not as it was in the olden days.
I was just telling Ashley earlier today we got a request from a client we've never worked with. It was a recommendation from some Mographers that I talked to literally three years ago. I haven't spoken with them since or really kept up a lot and they just must have mentioned our name to this client and here we are. And so, it just goes to show that those connections and that, they really matter and making a good impression and just reminding yourself that stuff might not immediately turn into a project or a relationship, but three years down the line it might, you never know.
Amanda Godreau:
Yeah, that's literally what I try to remind people. And I also try to remind people that I had a very non-traditional experience. I didn't just go to art school, I went to NYU for coding, before NYU I had a little bit of a stint in a university in Puerto Rico which got interrupted by the gigantic hurricane that we got hit with. That’s what brought me to the US in the first place. Before then, I was always really interested in spreadsheets and finances and business. I assisted wedding photographers for five years from middle school to high school. So, I was really used to working with people who owned their own businesses, doing a lot of the upkeep, the follow-up. I almost feel like the creative side has been the easiest in my freelance journey.
There's so many things that are just soft skills that go hand in hand with freelancing. I almost feel like I fell into it.
Meryn Hayes:
Well, it sounds like, again, you worked really hard, but a lot of the disparate skills all connected to make this a really useful tool for you as you started. I mean, that's something that Ashley and I, producing is just a whole set of soft skills and something that if you go out freelancing without having been in-house or at an agency, you're essentially your own producer as well. And there's a reason why we exist. It's a whole job outside of the creative and not being exposed to what that entails I think sometimes causes people to start freelancing and then they think they're a failure of not being successful when they just haven't set themselves up to be successful because they didn't know it existed. You know? Don't know what you don't know.
Amanda Godreau:
Yeah, exactly. Producing is a whole other thing. I actually considered doing a production internship after graduating because I'm so interested in it. But again, I feel like that's just where my interest lies. Production to me is as interesting as creating and I don't think that's a very popular opinion. I might be wrong.
Meryn Hayes:
We love hearing it, we love to hear that.
Amanda Godreau:
Yeah! Many of my good friends are producers. I strongly believe that the success of a creative project is dependent on the work that goes before you even start thinking about what it looks like. And I think that's pretty cool of you guys.
Ashley Targonski:
Looking at your growth path, I thought it was really interesting that you had a talk with Maxon in 2021 when you were still in school. You've also won their Rookie Award. So, I wanted to see how that journey and experience because you were so new at the Cinema 4D program, but then you're talking about it just seeing it a year later, which is amazing.
Amanda Godreau:
Yeah, I feel like all my experiences have been so surreal. When Maxon reached out asking me to present at their 3D Show I was like, "Are you aware that I've been using this program for under a year?" At that point.
I think I've had to constantly reinforce that I’m deserving of the opportunities that come my way. Imposter syndrome is so real. Sarah Beth did an amazing talk at the Bash last time. I think perspective is the most important thing we can have. I think my art is awesome and while I might not be the most technically experienced person in the room, I have such a passion for design, I feel like I'm very methodical in the ways that I do and that has inherent value…
It really resonated with me when you mentioned about how you appreciated the topic of which I'm speaking on about at Dash this year because it's something that compared to the rest of the lineup of the speaker, is very unique to my experience. I feel like that's how I've approached my career in general because although this is a very young industry and figuring out how people are even going to retire in this industry is a big question mark, looking at what I can give, being like, "Okay, I'm this person in this room, what can I do to not just be of use for myself, but to others?"
Ashley Targonski:
I really love that. And just I think you understand that while you're still in college and it's something that you're living by even today as you continue to grow as an artist, that's really cool because in college I was like, "I don't know what I'm doing." I'm just going with the flow.
Amanda Godreau:
No one knows. Yeah, I think it's so powerful and it's if you don't learn how to do that, especially as women, especially as a Black woman, it's so easy to undervalue yourself. "Oh, I'm not the smartest. Oh, I don't have the most years of experience. Oh, I've never done this before." I think shaping your perspective is vital to existing in this industry as someone who's not typically what you think of when you think of a CG designer.
Meryn Hayes:
That is so important. I mean, I think nobody knows what they're doing and when you figure that out, it helps a whole hell of a lot. I think as women we've spent way too much time doubting ourselves and trying to find space where normally you would be in that place of self-doubt.
Think about all the other things, all of the other time we would have, if we weren't doubting ourselves for every second of every day or every move, or how do we sound in X email? I mean, I have had to do a whole heck of a lot of unlearning to ignore those instincts. When you get in moments of self-doubt like that, where do you go? What's your headspace? How do you combat that?
Amanda Godreau:
I think I just remind myself that my career isn't that important. And I know that sounds counterproductive, but coming from a different culture where work isn't seen as the number one thing you strive for has been a huge factor. I've only lived stateside for four and a half years, and I think people forget that because they don't hear an accent.
In devaluing the amount of importance that I place on my career previously, I’ve been able to shift my headspace to, "I'm going to show up because I want to, not because I have to." At least for me, that’s flipped my mindset into being able to set better boundaries with myself and others work-wise and personally. I also have put a lot of importance into making friends with people who have nothing to do with the creative world. I have friends who are engineers and city planners, etc. Being around people who can separate my creative value from my personal value, especially this year has made the biggest difference.
It’s made me realize the importance of separating your own self-worth to what other people creatively think about you or as a professional. That's been really important.
Meryn Hayes:
Yeah, that's a good point. It's like we're so ingrained in our little bubble that it's a good reminder that a whole world, a whole lot of worlds exist outside of the Mograph community. And again, going back to how the world inspires art, talking with people outside of the community and talking with people in different disciplines, all of that is stuff that can give you an idea or inspire you in ways you weren't expecting. And also, it's just nice to meet people who are not the same as you.
Amanda Godreau:
Yeah, it's so much easier. Like, can we talk about how successful everyone in this industry is? No matter what they do. I remember last year being a senior or graduating and being like, "Oh my God, I'm so behind." I used to be so hard on myself.
It's not until I started hanging out with other people in their early twenties in other career paths, that I got a really healthy dose of, "You need to get some perspective." Because it can be really deceptive to be surrounded by, studio owners, successful freelancers, art directors, and NFT artists who all are financially doing so well.
It’s easy to forget what you do have, and what you should be grateful for. It's been so helpful for me to just sit down and be like, "You're losing perspective. You have ownership of your own time. You set your own salary. You get to pick and choose and say yes and no to work opportunities. And that's not something that most people ever get to do, period."
Meryn Hayes:
Well, I hope everyone comes to the Bash for many reasons, but I hope that that is one thing that people can take away from the Bash. I mean, back in 2021, I just feel like the honesty and the stories we got from our speakers last time were in comparison to all conferences or design festivals. It wasn't just get up there and talk about your work for 45 minutes and, "Oh, I worked with Nike and Google, and look how successful I am." But it's, "Here's why this was a challenge. Here's where I thought my career was over and then I started something new." Or fuck hustle, what TJ said, so having those honest conversations because everything's bright and shiny and if we all look successful, that's great.
But then for students who are just starting, or people just entering the industry, not even just students. You automatically feel like a failure if you're not an award-winning studio owner or you sold an NFT for a bajillion dollars. And so, that imposter syndrome is easy to walk into because you just walk into the industry doubting yourself.
Amanda Godreau:
Yeah, it's so bad. And like Ashley mentioned I was doing the Maxon 3D show. I won the Rookie Award. I graduated I got to have my work in Beeple’s studio opening in North Carolina. I remember that last experience so well because I felt like I couldn't look at my own work on a screen.
I felt like a complete imposter. I was like, "This isn't real.” "I don't want to look at my work." And I had to seriously sit myself down that night and be like, "What's going on? Am I the only one that feels this way? Why do I feel this way?" It’s so easy to think people don’t feel that way about their own work when you’re just experiencing them through social media. I’ve had students come up to me and say "I don't feel great, and I have to feel great to be able to do what you do." And I'm like, "The secret is I'm still learning how to feel great about it." I'm still learning how to accept it, how to not minimize my hard work, how to not just say, "It fell into my lap, or it was just luck."
And acknowledge that there were so many hours put in, so much burnout that happened. Giving yourself credit for the things you’ve accomplished is definitely something that’s been a learned skill. Despite how I might feel sometimes, I can often acknowledge that you can hold two truths at the same time.
Meryn Hayes:
Yeah, I mean, even in this conversation, you said that everything fell into your lap, but you worked really hard and then the right opportunity came along. Those two things, those truths can be true.
Amanda Godreau:
Exactly. I have to catch myself all the time.
Ashley Targonski:
I think that's something I've had to also deal with a lot is imposter syndrome. And I was managing teams and I was still like, "Why are they asking me to do stuff? Because I don't know what I'm doing." And I obviously did. But I think a large thing that you're saying that I really think is great is you are meeting all these people, you're creating opportunities for yourself to have more opportunities in the future. So, just taking every chance you have to be able to have another opportunity later. I think that's so important for when you're young, but then also as you continue to grow throughout your career.
Amanda Godreau:
Yeah, I mean, it reminds me of why I do what I do. Yesterday I had this amazing call with the founder of a brand. She founded a brand for this luxury fragrance spray. They've won all these awards. The founder is also Black and she's manufacturing this in the Bronx which is amazing. When I saw her brand I immediately messaged her, and I was like, "Oh my God, I love your perfume. Can I please work with you? You don't have to pay me. Can I just please help support this vision?" And I got a call with her yesterday, and she's said, "You don't know how hard I've looked for a creative that understands my perspective." "I looked everywhere. I couldn't find anyone." "How do you find other people creatives like you?"
And I remember telling her, "I don't know. I don't really know anyone like me."
That's a conversation I've had so many times. I think even last year, Meryn, when I was on Sarah Beth's Motion Coven podcast, I mentioned the number of times I get on a call where I'm the only woman there, and it’s assumed I'm the producer instead of a 3D designer."
I always ask people, "Hey, does anyone ever know another Black female 3D artist?” Looking at how big our industry is, I can't find someone who looks like me in the same feild. I don’t think that's something that everyone who does have that privilege is entirely conscious of.
Motion Design feels like a family to so many folks in it, or at least that’s a sentiment I’ve heard enough to remember. But it has to feel like that for more than a homogenous group. There was a very visible push for DEI initiatives around 2020 and George Floyd’s murder but efforts have become less and less public as time has passed.
Meryn Hayes:
Well, A, I'll see those people out personally. I think it's also how we move forward holistically for a sustained period of time. Like you said that there was this big push after George Floyd's murder. Everyone posted on social media and talked about bringing in more diverse groups and finding freelancers in communities that weren't of their own. But that push has to continue and be sustained across the entire industry. It's hard to push a rock up a hill if you're just by yourself, right? It has to be the community. And so, obviously, that's something that we've talked a lot about internally.
And I was, back in March, in CoMotion, we had a diversity and equity panel. We were talking and someone in the audience asked how we felt about the industry moving ahead, looking ahead. And I think the thing that boggles my mind is looking at the crowd at CoMotion, looking at Ringling, the minority of people in that group was white men by far. There were more women in the audience at CoMotion, and most of them were not white. And so, I have hopes looking ahead that the opportunities that people are given now, finding communities, like the animation industry can happen at earlier ages, right? In college. But the barriers of cost and equipment and finding places like SCAD or Ringling, I mean, that's a huge investment that communities don't have the opportunity to find.
Amanda Godreau:
I also think that looking at colleges specifically, art colleges, student bodies aren't the best way to project what the industry is going to look like. I think that while it's great to have hope in what student bodies look like, that's not going to change until the people doing the hiring have more knowledge, and perspective to be able to acknowledge what our biases are.
You have to acknowledge it in order to move past it. It might not seem like an issue to most people, because in theory your race, gender, or identity has nothing to do with the technical aspects and ability of doing a job. However, it leaves a gigantic void for mentorship. I want to be an art director, ideally a creative director, at some point in my career but I can't point to what that looks like for a Black woman. I can't ask anyone for advice and be like, "As a Black woman, how did you navigate x, y z to become a creative director?" There's no one that I know of for me to ask. And I've asked. I've asked every single time I'm on a call with a studio, when they ask, "Do you have any questions?" My question is, "Do you know any Black women AD’s, CDs?" I'm actively asking.
Even if I am here moving through my career, the road to success for these career paths is inherently absent.
Meryn Hayes:
Insane.
Ashley Targonski:
This ties into something we talked to Macaela from Newfangled about, but they have created a DIB section of their company. And when they work on projects, they find people in those communities who actually work on those projects and understand. They do the research; they talk to them about their experiences. And I think that's so integral to... That's what everyone should be doing. We should really be understanding, we shouldn't have this person on this project that doesn't know anything about what we're doing. Let's talk to the communities. Yeah.
Amanda Godreau:
I also think that leads to a really good opportunity to talk about possible jobs in this industry that don't exist in this industry. Because listen, I can say all day that my information is in my bio, on my website. But the truth is, producers are often also super overworked. You can't expect them to be reading the bio of every single artist that they're reaching out to. It's impossible.
I feel like that's a huge opportunity in motion design that could lead to even more jobs and a more diverse workforce. Producers do so much, they keep track of so many things.
Meryn Hayes:
I was also just re-reading Bien’s blog post for their Q&A, and they were talking about Double the Line efforts. Do you know about that program?
Amanda Godreau:
I don't!
Meryn Hayes:
It comes from the Association of Independent Producers (AICP, essentially for every job they have, they create a second line item in the budget for whatever it is, cel animation or illustration, to bring on an underrepresented minority group. So, a Black cel artist to pair with a senior cel artist so that they get opportunities to work on a project or on a client work that otherwise they wouldn't get. And then they have that as an opportunity to show on their portfolio, like, "Hey, I did this."
And so, bringing people into positions that they previously wouldn't have an opportunity because they don't have the connections yet. We talked about how important those connections are early on in finding jobs or careers.
Amanda Godreau:
That's amazing. I think that's an amazing thing for a studio to be doing. Going back to the conversation about SCAD and Ringling, I think that also has to be part of the conversation is that while it might be really convenient for studios to hire out of Ringling and SCAD because it's the standard, and you do come out industry ready. I think there are a lot of colleges and programs that are also overlooked that might have equally as amazing talent.
Last year I went to speak to the students at CUNY in Brooklyn. To my surprise when I arrived, I realized that not only was the professor Black, but so was the entire student body. Not only that but mostly black women. This was a Cinema 4D class.
I think that's the only time in my career where I've been in a room full of people who looked like me. I felt really conflicted when I left because they were there, talented, and learning with such amazing questions, and I couldn’t give them advice that was relevant to their experience. I had a huge leg up with going to a private art institution.
I carry some privileges. I feel very conflicted when I’m used as an example for someone who is a minority who’s moving through our industry. I often feel like the worst example. I went to a very expensive art school. I so happened to have my own business in high school that paid for a huge chunk of my college education. I come from a family of academics and had little to no barrier for entry when applying for college." While my experience has value, merit and includes a lot of hard work. No one should be used as a rule for "If they did it, why can’t you?"
Meryn Hayes:
Yeah, yeah. I think that's a good reminder. Just like you said that again, it's setting people up for failure, right? When you don't see all of those privileges that you know you've had and that I know I've had, and other people have had. You don't see that. And when you compare yourself to someone else, "Amanda did it, why aren't you doing it?"
Amanda Godreau:
Yeah.
Meryn Hayes:
Thank you. We're just so glad to have you come in and really can't thank you enough for participating, being willing, and we're looking forward to your talk!
Amanda Godreau:
I'm so excited. This is my favorite conference.
Ashley Targonski:
Can we quote you on that?
Amanda Godreau:
Yeah, totally.
Meryn Hayes:
It's going to be the Bash, the homepage. It's going to be a huge quote. Amanda says...”MY FAVORITE CONFERENCE”
Meryn Hayes:
Cool. Good chatting, Amanda. We'll see you soon!
Meet the speakers: Wes Louis
An interview with Wes Louis: a director, designer, and animator at The Line known for his unique design sensibility and his dramatic action-led animation sequences.
Q&A hosted by Mack Garrison.
Read time: 15min
Mack Garrison:
Wesley, I'm really pumped for this conversation because, well, one, if you don't know this already, you guys do phenomenal work. I mean, the cel work you guys produce, just really top tier, top quality.
Wes Louis:
Thank you, man, I appreciate that.
Mack Garrison:
I was talking to Dotti over at Golden Wolf, because she was at the Bash last time. She spoke on behalf of Golden Wolf there. She was talking about how highly she thinks of you guys and that for a long time you kept winning and losing to each other on pitches. It was just always you guys going back and forth.
Wes Louis:
Yeah, that is exactly right. They would do something and then we would do something, and they would do something but it feels kind of healthy. It's strange to say, because you think to yourself, "Well, I mean they are a rival company," but actually we have quite a good relationship with them. Anytime they have their summer parties or other events, they invite us over. We have a good laugh and a few drinks, so it's a healthy competitive space.
Mack Garrison:
I remember getting out of school and being so green in this space, not knowing anything, but how many people were willing to help me. Even growing from junior up to senior as an animator, and then again, starting the studio, and how people were just willing to share advice. I've never met a space that feels as communal as the motion design space really is.
Wes Louis:
I just think it’s what makes the space a better place to work in. No one's holding their cards too close to their chest. It's weird, because intuitively you’d think keeping what's unique about you secret would be the way to go but, the opposite has benefits. One of our other directors, Sam, always talks to guys from Animade or Moth Collective about all sorts. We all go to the same festivals, hang out and talk. "Well how did you do that or show the best way to do this?" it's a weird but nice little community we have
Mack Garrison:
It feels different, because I feel like it's not like that in the rest of the creative space. Even agencies, I know agencies are kind of cutthroat with each other, but studios, for whatever reason, it's not. I think it's because, as a studio owner, I feel like people start studios because they really love a singular craft.
Wes Louis:
Yeah, exactly, you're coming from the same place. And I think with us specifically, because all the directors of the company, we're all animators or compositors, we all come from creative backgrounds. I think we just have more of an understanding of people that work with us as well. So we understand burnout, we understand what it feels like not to want to work on something that maybe you're not feeling inspired by.
Mack Garrison:
So I run Dash with a business partner. We were both animators back in the day. We animated for basically a decade before trying our hand at running a shop and I think there's a difference. When leadership knows how to animate, you don't put your team in bad situations. Even just understanding what's reasonable, what's not, what's a hard request, what's not, and to be able to talk through that. I think you get into trouble when it gets too much on the business-oriented side of things.
Wes Louis:
Definitely. We worked on a Gorillaz music video with Jamie Hewlett. The turnaround for that, I think it was something ridiculous, six or eight weeks, and we did it because, I mean, it's the Gorillaz….
Mack Garrison:
This is the Humility piece, right?
Wes Louis:
Yeah.
Mack Garrison:
That you did that in 6 weeks. That's ridiculous.
Wes Louis:
Yeah, it was crazy. It was like a six-week turnaround to get everything done. Max and Tim were directing it. Tim's a massive Jamie Hewlett fan, so that's like a dream come true project just landing on his plate. We took the job, but I think everybody, including the directors, worked so hard on it. They were working late, working until 10 o'clock at night and all that kinds. We really understood what our staff was going through and I think they appreciated that we acknowledged that we were pushing them to the limit, but then we also said, "We're never doing that again," because you're breaking the people that are working for you. So while The project gave the studio a lot of street cred, it also made us really examine our working practices because the people who work for us are important. I mean animation is hard enough as it is without you having to come home after hours every night and you're not spending time with your friends and family. So you want to try and find a balance. I mean, sometimes it happens where a crunch happens and you have to stay a bit later, but I think nine times out of 10 it's definitely more of an exception than a rule. Whereas I know some companies are like, "No, you've got to work on the weekend and you've got to work on this, you've got to work that." We try not to do that.
Mack Garrison:
A hundred percent. We feel the same way. And I think part of it was also that self-reflection after the pandemic where priorities just totally switched for people. It's like, "Look, this is just a job." We like it, I love animation, but there's stuff outside of it. We all have stuff outside of it, right?
Mack Garrison:
I want to get back into some of the stuff you guys are doing at Line, because like I said, it's phenomenal. But maybe take me back to the beginning.
Wes Louis:
Yeah, so my family's Caribbean, St. Lucian. My parents were born over there. But I was born and raised here in London. As a child I was always into animation, just generally, Saturday morning cartoons, anime shows. I'd always been drawn well. I've been drawing since I was five-years-old... and never really put it down. So it was something that I think people thought it would just be a hobby that went away, and it never did. I was doing anything that could probably lead me into comics or animation, any excuse to draw. Graphic design was the closest thing I could find to do that. And even on graphic design projects, I was always trying to do some sort of character design or animation orientated thing. But yeah, I studied multimedia for a bit and I dropped out of that because I just wasn't happy doing the course, so I spent a few years working in retail and doing office work and all this stuff. And I think it was like 27, that I just asked myself the question, "If money and logistics weren't a factor, what would I be doing?" And animation just kept coming back, so I kind of worked my way backwards and just started saving for it and doing odd jobs so I can save money, so I could take a year or two off just so I can do a course in animation.
Mack Garrison:
So you did graphic design, you kind of dropped out of the multimedia side because you weren't vibing with it as much. You wanted to get more into the traditional, kind of cel animation. Is that what was drawing your interest mainly?
Wes Louis:
Yeah that's what it is. Even when I was doing retail, I remember I was working in a store called Hamleys, it's like a toy store, a big toy store in London on Regent Street. And I remember they would ask me to do graphic design things every now and then, but I was working behind the tills. And I remember applying for a job in the display department, where they would decorate displays and all that kind of stuff. And I thought, "Yeah, this would be perfect." And it's funny, the head of display, showed him my CV, showed my work. He is like, "Yeah, you're amazing," all this kind stuff. He's like, "But I'm not going to give you a job." I was like, "Why?" "Because you're too good for here." I was like, "Why?. He is like, "If you want to go and work in this, then get off your ass and go and find somewhere to work, but I'm not giving you a job here." And he refused to give me a job.
Mack Garrison:
Wow.
Wes Louis:
Yeah. There was also a point where I tried to go full-time in Hamleys, because I was working three or four days a week, and my manager at the time refused to give me a job. She refused to let me work full-time. I was like, "What's going on?" She goes, "Oh, I see you..." Because I would do a lot of doodles on till receipt paper while I'm waiting for customers. I've still got loads of them at home. She was like, "I always see you drawing on these receipts and you're just sitting here." And she goes, "Why aren't you going out and looking for real work in what you love?" I didn't really have a proper answer for her, because I was quite young at the time. But she's like, "Look, I'm not giving you a job here." She goes, "If you want to work a few days a week, that's fine, I can't stop you but don't try and apply for any other department, because if you try and apply, I'm going to tell them not to hire you."
Mack Garrison:
No way.
Wes Louis:
They just literally would not let me work full time there.
Mack Garrison:
That's so crazy. It's that early confidence push and kind of validation that what you're doing, what you're creating means something.
Wes Louis:
I think that's what it was. I actually did reach out to her (Her name is Julia) just to tell her thank you for doing that, pushing me. So I think from then I just went into work with more of a focus. I made a decision to become an animator and spent time working and saving up for a Postgraduate animation course at Central Saint Martins in London. It's funny, because when I went to visit the college they'd had the end of year show, and for some reason, that year it was incredible. So I worked so hard to get on that course, man, believing I wasn't good enough to get on the course. I was doing life drawing classes every weekend. I think I was doing it twice a week. And I went on to an art exchange program in Prague with conceptart.org, hosted by a company called Massive Black.
Mack Garrison:
Well it had to be good validation for you on this career path too, because I know when you find something you're really into, you get into this flow state where it's not work anymore. It's all this stuff that you're trying to get better at and it's hard, but it's fun. You're excited, you want to jump in and just learn as much as you can. It's a totally different vibe versus if you're in something you're not digging.
Wes Louis:
Oh, I think that's 100% true. And I could even point to projects I've done where I know the flow state versus not being in a flow state, for sure.
I did a lot of work to get on the course. I even visited the university a couple of times to speak to the head lecturer just to talk. "Ah," he goes, "you again." So I would go up there, spend about 20 minutes with him, keep in mind I lived an hour away from the university at the time. I'm showing him my sketchbook just asking questions “is this good? Do I need to draw more of this?” It really was an excuse to be in that environment with lightboxes and students flippings animation paper. It was the closest thing to an animation studio I'd ever been in and I loved it. By the time I had my interview he was just like, "All right, well let's see how we can get rid of you then." But he was joking, very British humor. He said, "Your portfolio is incredible. What took you so long," sort of thing. So he was like, "Of course we want you on the course.
Mack Garrison:
Right.
Wes Louis:
I had worked so hard to get on the course, because I just thought I wasn't good enough so I didn't take it for granted. I studied for a year. That's where I met Tim McCourt, who was on the same course as me. After the course finished, I spent about six months trying to finish my thesis film, which I didn't.
Mack Garrison:
That's great.
Wes Louis:
I really tried to finish. I thought there was something wrong with me because it was like, "Why can't I finish this?" And I was trying to get a certain amount of quality in a certain amount of time, but I just couldn't do it. Just not realizing that, actually animation takes time and it takes a team. And I'm trying to do this, Disney level stuff by myself.
Mack Garrison:
That's a lot. That's a lot to put on your plate. So you never finished the thesis?
Wes Louis:
No, I didn't finish but I really tried. I worked on it for a few months after the course but it was so much harder trying to do it from home. About 6 months after uni,I moved to Scotland. I was working at a company called Ink Digital on this film called Illusionist, as an inbetweener cleanup artist. I even tried to finish my thesis film there, redesigned the characters and everything. Even at that point, I wasn't very confident in animation. I just couldn't understand how to do it. I remember meeting with an animator at Django Films (that was the main studio for the Illusionist where all the animation took place) She gracefully took time out to show me around and show me her work and process. Within half an hour she said and My understanding of animation completely changed. If you asked me to do my thesis film today, be it two months or three months I’d finish it. I’d know what to animate, what to cheat etc.
Mack Garrison:
What did she say to you?
Wes Louis:
I said, "So what's your breakdown?" She goes, "I don't really think about it that way, I just do the motion. And then I find a breakdown afterwards." She showed me her sketches and demonstrated her method. It just made sense. It was Aya Suzuki, actually. She's gone on to work with directors like Hayo Myazakiand she's an incredible animator. It was just a half an hour chat and it was like things clicked all of a sudden where the things that I was struggling to do weren't hard anymore, because now I understood what it was. And it was just basically her process of how she put an idea down and got the movement down. I think my problem was getting too in the weeds of it, I was trying to understand what's a breakdown, what's a key. I think those things matter when you're passing off the animation to somebody else, but when you're doing it yourself, it doesn't matter that much, you know? There might be some people that disagree with me, but that was just for me, it just made sense the way she went about it.
Mack Garrison:
Tell me about some of the projects that came after that?
Wes Louis:
So when I got back from Scotland, I met up with Tim again and we worked on our first short film together. We spent about a year doing that at a Partizan. We were very fortunate to have a space to work for free as Tim had a good relationship with one of the producers at the time. We thought it would take us three months, it took us about a year. And we got an award from the Westminster Arts Council. So they were giving out money for people to make films and stuff... so I think they gave us 4,000 pounds, which seemed like a lot at the time.
Mack Garrison:
Yeah, of course.
Wes Louis:
I mean, me and Tim weren't getting paid for it, we were doing freelance work for Partizan so we could keep on going. We learnt a lot doing that. After that I guess the project that made me more well known was Super Turbo Atomic Ninja Rabbit, I just went full steam ahead. It was a style of animation I'd never approached before. I've never done anything like it which is ironic because my love of animation really is rooted in action and anime. There was no reason for me to think I could do it except that I just wanted to so I just went ahead and tried. Also got a friend Rina May to do the music and BXFTYS on sound fx. Actually let me backup, I'm jumping around a bit. After me and Tim made our film, we went around looking for work as directors. Turns out it doesn't really work in that way. You don't just go and apply to be a director.
Mack Garrison:
Yeah, right. Like, "I'd like to work here please." And it's like, "No, thank you."
Wes Louis:
Yeah, yeah. "I'd like to work as a director." It's like, "Not really, no."
Mack Garrison:
That's great.
Wes Louis:
I did show my portfolio though and a few weeks later it was like, "Oh, yeah, we like your work we have some jobs on if you're interested. That was at Nexus in London." And I was working there freelance for about a year and Tim was doing freelance at Partizan and some other places. While Tim was on the job, he met with Sam Taylor, James Duveen and Bjorn Erik Aschim, the other partners at The Line. Sam was looking for a studio space at the time and was asking if we were interested in sharing a space, and not even as a company but just people who animate together and have a shared space while working different freelance jobs. I couldn’t really afford it at the time but we had a friend Fritzi who had a desk and she was letting me use it at the time and eventually I took over from her. While at the studio Tim got approached by some of the runners who were at Partizan who now have their own company, Bullion Productions. They got a job from the Ministry of Sound to do a music video for Mat Zo and Porter Robinson and asked if Tim and I were up for directing because they knew we made our short film at Partizan. So it was like, "Yeah, sure." And then the other guys we were sharing a space with, they were just finishing up their film Everything I can See From Here, so we were like, "Oh, if you guys aren't doing anything, we'd like to hire you to work on our project." So the six of us worked on this project together and it went so well. It was an incredible experience. We just said, "Oh, how about we start a collective, we can just consolidate our work and take it further?" That's basically when we formed The Line.
Mack Garrison:
It's perfect.
Wes Louis:
Soon after Bjorn got contacted by Electric Theatre Collective (ETC) to do some concept art and they were asking, "Do you know any animators or character designers?" He's like, "Oh, I actually know five guys."
So we went over there and we were working together for a while. They gave us some funding to make our first official The Line original projects. Amaro and Walden's Joyride and Super Turbo Atomic Ninja Rabbit. Ideas we had for a couple years. We were working on those productions simultaneously and released them a month apart, maybe two. I think that these projects gave us our notoriety. From then we just started getting commercial projects. We were at ETC for about 3 years I think but eventually ended up leaving to actually start our own studio. No hard feelings or anything, it just became harder to function the way we wanted to as directors. We thought, "Let's see if we can start our own company." I mean the options then were, to either leave and try and make some more money to build ourselves back up, and then hopefully regroup again, which probably wouldn't have happened. Or let's just go for it and start a company. So we pooled some money together, got a studio space and our first job came within 2 months and….
Mack Garrison:
The rest is history.
Wes Louis:
... five years later we've got, I think about we have roughly 40 people with us including the 6 founders.
Mack Garrison:
Man, that's crazy.
Wes Louis:
James counted about, over three or four projects, we had about 110 people working with us at one time.
Mack Garrison:
Wow. That's crazy.
Wes Louis:
Yeah, it is a bit surreal, because you're looking around and you're like- "I don't exactly know how this works but it is working, and it's great."
Mack Garrison:
Oh, no, it's really cool. So a couple of things I picked up on there, Wesley that I think is really interesting and I want to poke at a bit is, so you get out of school, you end up on this Illusionist project, you're kind of navigating the process a bit, but then it kind of starts to click. You and Tim, then after the Illusionist, work on your personal project, right. What film was that that you guys were doing?
Wes Louis:
Drawing Inspiration.
Mack Garrison:
Drawing Inspiration, that's right. So you're doing these films or this entertainment side of things and then you end up from that side into kind of the commercial space a bit from there. But I like how when you even refer to the projects you're working on, you're referring to them as films. Everything you do has this artistic lens. And I do think there's this balance in animation with art versus design, right?
Wes Louis:
Yeah.
Mack Garrison:
How did you navigate that as you got into that world and all of a sudden these projects, which I'm sure you had thoughts on, on how you want it to be, is now getting pushback from clients who are paying you for it and they want it done a certain way and you're like, "That's killing the artistic style of it." How does the artist versus designer kind of come into play for you these days?
Wes Louis:
That's a really interesting question. I mean even the short films that we made, people ask, "How do you make the time to make those films and do what you want? It's insane." And the answer is, it is insane. It sounds very cliche, but we were too stupid to know that you're not supposed to do these kinds of things. We made two short films in a year simultaneously, while trying to do freelance projects. And that's crazy, because I was working, I mean we were working weekends, evenings and stuff, and it's not an easy thing to do. But like you said, if you love what you're doing, you don't really perceive it as work, you just perceive it as this thing that you need to get done.
In terms of the commercial side, I think earlier on I would say we did get projects that you'd get weird client pushback. I remember doing a project and I literally had the clients standing behind me while I was doing a drawing.
Mack Garrison:
No! I would've quit. I would've been out.
Wes Louis:
Oh god, it was like the Apprentice. There were about three or four of them and I was drawing a face. "Oh, do this in the lips. Move it, move it. No, push it up, push it down. Make her eyes bigger. Make it smaller." And the drawing, at the end of it, I just remember sitting there thinking, "This is not going in my portfolio, this is the worst piece of work I've ever done.”
And luckily, I mean they kind of doubled back and they were like, "Oh, actually, this is not working." And then I had to redesign it from scratch and they just kind of left us to it. But actually, generally speaking, I feel like our clients have been really good. And I think that's because of the short films that we've made. And I think the thing that we realize is, if we make the things that we want to make and make it high quality, people hopefully will come to us for what we do rather than what someone else does. And I think that brings about a certain amount of trust from our client as well. So if we show them something that we've done that they're interested in. So anytime we get a pitch in, well a lot of the times they will point to other people's work, but it will always have our work in there. "Oh, when you did this on this project, this was great. We'd love more of this and stuff."
Mack Garrison:
It's almost like, concept-wise with references to other things, but stylistically it always comes back to you all. So you know you're in the right lane.
Wes Louis:
Yeah. So actually when we are doing stuff, nine times out of ten, I would say you do get satisfaction from the client work. Obviously it's not going to be 100% your way and I think there's an expectation of that. Look, someone's paying you to do this and you put your best foot forward and say, "Look, I really don't think this is a good idea because," and they do listen and then sometimes it's someone higher than the person you're talking to is like, "No, we definitely want this." "Oh, okay, that's fine." I always take our client projects as a space to learn as well.
Mack Garrison:
Sure, sure.
Wes Louis:
I'm getting paid to learn how to do something a little bit differently and apply it to my own work and to the studio as well. I mean the whole reason we started it is so that we can make our own stuff. We actually put some of our profits back into personal and development projects. We’ve actually got a few in development at the moment and one hopefully dropping late-summer.
Mack Garrison:
Perfect. That will be a perfect time to roll it in for the summer and share it on the big screen here in Raleigh.
Wes Louis:
Yeah, exactly. It's a short. Our films are quite short so typically they’re made in the style of a trailer or a music video, because to try and do anything longer can be quite difficult if you want something really long form. Doing shorts like this gives us a chance to kind of put stuff out there, our own identity and have people in the studio play around on things that they probably wouldn't normally get to do at other studios. We've actually got another director, who is the first director doing a personal project outside of the six of us.
Mack Garrison:
How does that feel? Because I do think there's something about as you progress as a studio or owner, you can't have your hand in everything. You can't always see stuff. Does it feel weird to get to this space where there's a director kind of rolling with something and you're not really sure what's going on?
Wes Louis:
It's weird. I think even just not being hands-on is a little bit frustrating for me. I got into it so I can draw and animate and I'm not drawing and animating anymore. And even people have said to me, "Oh, I don't really see your work anymore." It really is rewarding though, to see an animator go from a junior assist role to directing a project on her own project; leading a team of people, having her own voice and having the respect of all her peers supporting her, I think is amazing. I think none of us are under the illusion that we're always going to be relevant and it's nice to be able to build a space with the resources we have that can trickle down to the next generation. And they create stuff, and they do better than we ever could.
Mack Garrison:
I think, well because you look back and you look at the stuff that you've gone through and you learn about things that you really liked and the people that pushed you. Even your retail boss, don't do this, or your colleague who's like, "Think about it this way," and there's all these moments with these spaces where that's conducive. And so I think as leaders, you try to create that space at your studio. What are the things that you really wanted? What are the things that you can create an area for someone to try stuff to fail and stuff to grow and to learn? And so that's got to be a huge highlight at The Line.
Wes Louis:
Yeah, it is something that I think we speak about we're proud of. I mean, we don't always get everything right, we're still learning.
Mack Garrison:
Sure.
Wes Louis:
But I think more often than not from what people have said, unless they're lying to us, they're comfortable working or they like it, they feel supported, they feel like they've been heard and they get to put their ideas across. We've got this initiative that our development manager has put forward. So basically, we give 10 days to each person on the staff every year to just go in and play. The caveat is that it has to benefit the company in some sort of way. So it could be they go in, find a new system for production or just learn how to draw something a little bit better. Anything they want. It doesn't have to be something they present, it's just 10 days for people to go and play, because sometimes you wait for downtime to happen and sometimes there is no downtime. So it's like, all right, here's 10 days. And actually, some of the projects that we're working on now came from that. In fact, there's about three projects that have come from our exploration time where people have gone away, had 10 days to think about something that they weren't thinking about before, and then they've come back and said, "Oh, actually, I've got a great idea." It's like, "All right, let's make that, let's put some money into that so you get to have a bit of a creative outlet.
Mack Garrison:
That's cool. I love that. And I love the buy-in from folks too, because it makes people feel like they're bought into the studio. They're bringing their ideas to the table and the studio's rallying around them, which is really nice too.
Wes Louis:
I think that the thing with us is that we're like, "Oh, it would be so cool if we had this when we were coming up." We're like, "All right, well let's just do it for our staff." And it seems to be working.
Mack Garrison:
Do y'all feel good where you are now or do you want to continue to expand? Do you have any big, broader goals for the company?
Wes Louis:
It's funny you say that, because we literally are in a kind of space where we're trying to reestablish and just remember where we came from and use that to inform where we're going. So I'm from the Caribbean, as I said before, and what I've been doing is I've started this kind of program with a company in Jamaica called ListenMi, they're an animation company. And basically I just give them an hour a week or hour every two weeks of my time just sharing insight into just how animation works and helping them, in a sense, kind of level up. Because I think you've got loads of animators or aspiring animators in the Caribbean who just don't have the resources or people to teach them.
And I know I learn a lot because I've spoken to people around me and I've got access to certain things. And I guess for me personally, I would love The Line to be one of these spaces where, I don't know, it has some sort of academic program, training, and internship. And that's something that I have started trying out. I don't know where it's going to go. I feel like this is something that could take the next 10 years, it could take 20 years or something, I don't know. But I do recognize that, for instance, you've got places like Korea where the American animation was being outsourced to them and now they've just got incredible studios like Studio Mir for example. I think that's how you grow an industry. And I feel like the dream for me would be, reaching out to these places and training them up so that they can start. Eventually, we can outsource work to them and they grow and get better. And then they can start creating their own works, and then it trickles down to the schools and now you've got a thriving industry. So that's the kind of influence I would like the company to have.
Mack Garrison:
I really appreciate what you were saying on the community side. It's hard to give back when everything costs money, but one thing you can always do is time and attention. And just giving your time back to people knowing that when you were their age or that early part of your career, that that's what you really just needed is guidance. I think that's really critical. And I don't know, I know our industry is so community-focused, everyone's so nice and I think a lot of people are interested in that. And so I hope more people are doing the same thing you're talking about.
Wes Louis:
Right. Yeah, my short ‘The Mighty Grand Piton’ was big for me. I think the biggest shame for me would be if no one from the Caribbean works on it. I mean, voice actors and musicians, all that kind of stuff is not a problem over there, right, but animation is an area where there isn't really a market
Wes Louis:
It would be great to have everyone at a level where we can outsource work, but i've learned making a series isn't straightforward
Mack Garrison:
Right.
Wes Louis:
I think if you can have people out there on our types of productions I think it would be super beneficial. I think the same thing happened with Flying Bark, with Rise Of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles series. Having that type of project forced them to level up. That show is incredible. Now they’re so good now they can do that stuff by themselves. You know what I mean?
Mack Garrison:
Yeah.
Wes Louis:
So yeah, that kind of actually triggered the idea. So I think me doing it, isn’t about money or anything like that, it's like you said it's about time. It's one thing you talk about and talk about, but then I'm like, "You know what, let's dedicate time to it and make sure it's done. And then let's see what happens at the end of the year." And if at the end of the year where they feel like we've contributed something to them and they've used our resources, and they're able to talk to not just me, but some of the other partners and get some insights on how things are done, And if their work levels up, then I know it's working and I know that we're doing the right thing.
Mack Garrison:
I love it. Well you'll have to give us an update when you come to Raleigh on where some of that stuff is in the process. This was a really great convo. Thanks for hanging out with me for a bit.
Wes Louis:
Nice one, man. Nice to meet you and thanks for taking the time to talk to me as well.
Takeover Tuesday with Mike Healey
An interview with Mike Healey: a director and animator based in NY.
Interviewer: Matea Losenegger.
Read time: 5min
Matea:
Thank you for taking part in our Tuesday Takeover series! Can you please tell us a little about yourself and your work?
Mike:
I’m a director/animator based in NY. I fell in love with animation at an early age watching stuff like PeeWee’s Playhouse and Space Jam. After graduating from NYU, where I studied Film/TV with a focus on animation, I founded //kneeon studios and have been lucky enough to be doing that ever since!
Matea:
Many of your projects are very striking and illustrative. Do you have a background in illustration and what was your path to becoming a successful art director?
Mike:
Thanks! I don’t have a huge illustration background but I am always checking out work by illustrators and designers and keeping an eye out for potential collaborators. Whenever a project comes up, I try to find the right fit stylistically and tonally, then reach out to illustrators I know or have been wanting to collaborate with. I love to concept work out with illustrators and then let their imagination run wild. I am a firm believer that two (or more!) brains are better than one, so throwing around ideas in the concept phase is really fun for me and there’s usually a nice blend of all of our ideas in the final product.
Frames from “Curt Schilling’s Imperfect Game” - a film Mike directed.
Matea:
Where does the name //kneeon come from?
Mike:
When we first started out, my former business partner and I wanted a name that evoked bright colors and fun, so the name Neon came up. Sadly that name was already taken so we decided just to spell it differently instead and then it stuck. Wish I had a better answer!
Matea:
What made you want to start your own studio and do you have tips for artists aiming to do the same?
Mike:
I graduated from NYU in 2009 and there were very few job opportunities at the time so I decided to try to start my own company with a friend. We had been freelancing throughout college and trying to direct and animate as many projects as possible before graduating so we already had some potential clients when we got out of school. I had an internship at a production company in my senior year and the producers there were super helpful and gave me lots of good advice on everything from writing decks to bidding to budgeting and producing jobs.
In terms of advice for those wanting to start their own studio, I would say make sure you have a pretty good grasp at the business side of things, or partner with someone who does. It’s also important to have some projects that showcase the kind of work you want to make. Doesn’t necessarily have to be client work—it can be a personal project or short film. But you want your website and work to be a reflection of your talents and give an idea of why a client may want to hire you over some other animation studio. Lastly, keep your overhead as low as possible for as long as possible. It can help you take on projects you truly want to work on instead of expanding too quickly and being forced to take on anything and everything.
Frame from “J.R. Smith Redefined.”
Matea:
You've collaborated with many talented folks. How do you find artists and what goes into putting together a strong team?
Mike:
I always spend time (but not TOO much time) each day on Instagram, Behance and other sites. Whenever I see something I enjoy, I bookmark it. A lot of relationships with artists I have collaborated with have come from me reaching out to them when I enjoy their work. Word of mouth is another great way to find artists. I’m always asking friends and collaborators for any recommendations when I need some help with a project.
To put together a strong team, I think it’s important to find people you really enjoy working with. Many freelancers we have worked with have been with us on a ton of projects over the years so there’s a good short-hand between us. The best projects are the ones that don’t really feel like “work” and everyone has a creative say on.
Matea:
From sports to food/bev, retail, music, and more what is your favorite type of project to work on?
Mike:
My favorite types of projects to work combine sports with documentary audio. We have done so many sports-related projects that we recently started up a sports animation wing at //kneeon called Slam Dunk Club! I love being able to take interviews/doc-style audio and adding fun visuals to tell stories.
Slam Dunk Club brings together a team of directors, designers and animators from across the globe.
Matea:
As someone with a pretty diverse portfolio, is there an area of animation you would still like to explore?
Mike:
I’d love to work on some more long-form projects. We do a lot of work ranging from 15 seconds to 2 minutes in length, but would really enjoy making some longer films. We’re currently in the process of finishing up a 20 minute piece. And since my wife and I recently had our first child, I’d love to explore making some more animation geared toward kids!
Matea:
Your studio's work has a very distinctive voice. Where do you find inspiration and how do you make sure your work stays fresh?
Mike:
Thanks! I’m always trying to look at animation, design and art whenever I have a chance. It can be good to be aware of trends in animation and art so you know what to avoid to try to make something unique. And we try not to make something with the same style twice (unless of course it’s part of a series).
Matea:
As someone who's been in this game for a while, what do you think is in store for the future of motion design?
Mike:
There are always trends and advances in technology that will make animators’ lives easier, and some like AI that may make animators’ lives and livelihood more difficult. I’m not entirely sure what the future holds for motion design to be honest…I think there will be needs for more interactive animation and AR/VR as the tech catches up and becomes more mainstream.
Shot from “Ben’s Original” project.
Matea:
What does the rest of 2023 look like to you? Anything we should keep an eye out for?
Mike:
We have a long-form fully animated documentary being wrapped up and hopefully coming out sometime soon. Recently wrapped up animated segments for a documentary about J.R. Smith that just came out on Amazon Prime.
Takeover Tuesday with Trevor Wood
An interview with Trevor Wood: a motion designer based in Champaign-Urbana, IL.
Interviewer: Matea Losenegger.
Read time: 5min
Matea:
Thank you for giving us your time! Can you introduce yourself and what you do?
Trevor:
My name is Trevor Wood and I’m a motion designer based in Champaign-Urbana, IL. I live here with my beautiful wife and adorable rescue dog. When I’m not animating you’ll find me at one of the local open-mic nights or on the couch playing Fortnite.
Matea:
You have a vast range of video production experience. How does the work from your time with WCIA 3 compare to commercial production?
Trevor:
I still use a lot of the same processes, techniques, and software I learned while at WCIA 3. The video production pipeline is pretty similar whether it’s for a local boutique or a big clothing brand. Budgets may be different, but it all comes down to the story you want to tell and how you tell it.
Looking back, I was super lucky to get that job because I had the chance to learn a lot of different things like live camera operation, audio engineering, and video editing. I’ve even shot aerial footage from a helicopter, which was a highlight for sure. But the main thing I did was shoot and produce local TV commercials. The ones with that certain charm you can only get on local broadcast television. I loved embracing the format and its limitations, and I still try to infuse some of that charm into every project.
Shot from Trevor’s reel.
Matea:
What made you decide to freelance full time and what was that transition like?
Trevor:
The idea of owning my own business has always appealed to me, ever since I got my first job at a small family-owned grocery store. At one point I wanted to open my own coffee shop even though I didn’t yet drink coffee. It sounded cool to be in charge and make my own decisions. Later, in college I was able to make some extra money on the side doing graphic design and photography. When the pandemic hit I started working from home and I constantly found myself going down motion design YouTube rabbit holes. Eventually someone recommended reading the Freelance Manifesto by Joey Korenman and it felt like Joey was speaking directly to my soul. From that point on all I could think about was going freelance as a motion designer.
After making the decision to go freelance, the transition took much longer than I expected. About two years from start to finish. I was still a little rusty with motion design and had to really refine my chops. I also had no idea how to run my own business, so on my commutes I started listening to all of the podcasts from Motion Hatch, The Futur, and School of Motion. I started doing work on the side after hours and saving all of the extra money I made to create a financial cushion just in case things slowed down. Eventually I had to start turning down work because there was so much demand and that’s when I knew it was time to quit my job and go full-time. After I hit my financial goal, I went freelance in July 2022.
Matea:
You recently collaborated with Ben Marriott. What was your experience working with him and the team he pulled together?
Trevor:
Collaborating with Ben was a dream come true. He started getting big on YouTube right around the time I started pursuing a freelance career. So when he launched Master Motion Design course, I was first in line. I was chosen for the collab based on my work for the course and joined 24 other exceptional students to create the Inside an Animator’s Mind collab. Everyone who was part of the collaboration was so nice and it felt great to be part of such an amazing group. Leading up to the launch we all shared our work in a private forum and had the chance to see Ben’s fantastic intro come to life. It was awesome, and one of the biggest highs of my career so far.
Inside Animator's Mind Collab.
Matea:
Whether it be for a passion project or for a client, what is the secret to cultivating a strong collaborative environment?
Trevor:
As artists, our work is often very personal because it’s a reflection of ourselves and our experiences. But to cultivate a strong collaborative environment it’s important to focus on what’s best for the project as a whole and not what’s best for the individual. That can look different whether you’re working with a client or on a passion project. When I’m working with a client, I try to make sure every decision I make is what’s best for the goals of the project and doesn’t just satisfy my artistic desire. If I’m working with others, I’m constantly asking myself, is this what’s best for us, or is this what’s best for me?
Other than that, just be a good human. You don’t have to be the best artist. I’m certainly not. Just be kind, friendly, and helpful. Those are the main ingredients to a strong collaborative environment.
Matea:
While it goes without saying you have some fun character work, I noticed even your text and graphic animations have a lot of charm. What's your process in giving personality to something that's not necessarily a character?
Trevor:
Even if something isn’t a character, it still has character. Giving life to things that wouldn’t have it normally is one of my favorite parts about this business. My process is iterative, which means I animate the biggest movements first, then refine with secondary motion, overshoot, and anything else that feels right. I use my hands a lot to get a better understanding of how I want the movement to feel, and I use my breath to help make the timing feel natural. Then I’ll spend as much time as possible in the graph editor to make sure every keyframe is perfect (or at least close enough).
Shot from the School of Motion Holiday Card.
Matea:
Where are some unexpected places you've gotten inspiration from?
Trevor:
It’s hard to pinpoint exactly where my inspiration comes from. There are so many talented artists out there that are constantly inspiring and challenging me with their work. But probably the most unexpected place I find inspiration is in restaurants. Whenever I go out to eat with my wife I have to make sure there are no TVs within my line of sight, otherwise I won’t hear a word she says to me the entire time. We cut the cord a long time ago, so I rarely see broadcast commercials. So as I’m waiting for our food to arrive, I find myself captivated by them, trying to figure out how they did the graphics, wondering which studio worked on the animation, who designed the style frames. And since the commercials aren’t targeted like most of the ads I see, I get to see animation that’s totally different than my Instagram algorithm feeds me and I find it all very inspiring (and entirely distracting).
Matea:
What is your favorite type of project to work on?
Trevor:
I love when I’m given a project with very clear brand guidelines. I enjoy the challenge of drawing within the lines and knowing the rules (and sometimes breaking them on purpose). It may sound counterintuitive, but I feel paralyzed when a project has an open brief or too much creative freedom. I like to have a bounding box to play in.
Matea:
Is there a style or type of animation you'd like to explore more?
Trevor:
I started learning Blender this year to explore the hybrid 2D/3D style. I just find the mix between those two main styles of animation very interesting. You might have line work at 12fps while something else with photo-real geometry and textures is happening in the background. The possibilities of hybrid styles in general is super exciting.
Water Cycle Project
Matea:
Is there anything you're excited to share this year?
Trevor:
Some friends and I just dropped a collab we’ve been working on since the start of the year. It was a twist on the game telephone where we had to create a story while only knowing what came immediately before. The story doesn’t make much sense in the end but it’s a fun time. I’d love to do more collab projects this year — It was a great time.
Takeover Tuesday with Dylan Casano
An interview with Dylan Casano: a motion designer/illustrator from Oakland, California who has over 8 years experience in animation specializing in 2D After Effects Animation, including motion graphics, character animation, and compositing.
Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi.
Read time: 5min
Bella:
Hi Dylan! I'll never stop saying it, your Earth Day 2020 animation is glorious and one of my favorites of all time. But for those who are unfamiliar with you/your work, please introduce yourself!
Dylan:
Haha, thank you! I'm a human 2D Animator and Designer currently based in LA! My personal work tends to be colorful and graphic, and I'm usually breathing life into something that shouldn't be alive, like a taco, a bra, or the Earth.
I think putting sad faces on random inanimate items is hilarious, and you can't tell me any different.
I'm always trying to think of new ways to use After Effects in funky ways to get new looks! I believe every kind of illustration style can be animated, just comes down to how you do it, and how much sleep you want.
I'm primarily an After Effects Animator, with a propensity for adding character to things. I've been picking up Cel animation in the last 6 years because drawing can just make characters waaaay more expressive. Through a Mograph Mentor course with Henrique Barone, I discovered that Cel is very similar to how you would animate something in After Effects, but you’re just drawing it—a lot.
Bella:
How did you find yourself in the motion design world?
Kyle:
I went to school for Graphic Design for way too long and the most valuable thing I learned was that I’m not very good at Graphic Design. Animation has always come easier for me, and I'm a big nerd about it, but in my school there were no Motion Design classes. “Mograph” was barely a thing in schools at my time.
When I was looking for work with my fresh GD degree (Stands for both Graphic Design and Gol’ Dern), I came across a cool Creative/Branding Studio in Berkeley, California who was looking for a flash animation intern. I knew flash from my “Newgrounds.com” days (if you know what I'm talking about then your back probably hurts rn) so I took it on! After I finished the flash stuff, I was moved onto some After Effects projects which I learned as I went. They liked what I did, and I was hired as a Motion Designer.
After 4 years (to the day!) I broke from that Full Time nest to spread my wings in the Freelance world, a phase that would be pretty short lived because of the ever-present and ever-tempting long-term Tech contracts that would beckon me. After a few stints at some beefy internet companies, I decided to venture to the Mograph wilds of Los Angeles to work with We Are Royale!
Shot from Dylan’s reel.
Bella:
The behind the scenes content you share is super interesting and helpful to see as a fellow artist. Have you ever considered creating a class/being a teacher to share even more of your knowledge?
Dylan:
Thank you! I've always strived to make "Behind the Scenes" content both informational as well as entertaining. Sometimes the BTS is more interesting than the piece itself, and the animation process is very complex and really deserves some extra love.
I absolutely LOVE the BTS breakdowns made by Stéphane Coëdel and Chromosphere (look them up!). Their breakdowns always seemed to go further than a lot of the BTS content I saw out there at the time, they would stop and start the animation, break it down layer by layer, and then use fun sound effects and music to bring the whole thing home. I took a few pages from their books.
In addition to BTS content, I've spent some time teaching a Workshop or two at my alma mater and loved it! I definitely see teaching in my future in some capacity. I would absolutely love to teach an online class if there's enough interest out there.
Bella:
As someone with over 8 years of experience in the industry, how do you think it's changed since you first started? Is there anything you're excited or worried about?
Dylan:
Oh yeah, things are always changing! When I was in school Motion Graphics wasn't even a thing; there was Animation, and there was Graphic Design— they are both very different from Motion Graphics. There may have been some private art schools somewhere that had motion graphics classes but for the most part, I wasn’t aware of it existing in the US education system at the time. Now, Motion Graphics is straight up taught in school, which blows my mind!
The ‘Elder’ generation of Mograph (*cries a little*) used to come from various backgrounds like film, design, or even architecture—so it was easy to meet people who had a good general knowledge of all Mograph trades and beyond. Now that it’s been integrated into the school systems, I’ve noticed a lot more specialized (and crazy talented) people, which definitely changes the vibe a lot.
As far as my fears for the future go—I share, with the rest of the art world, the hesitation about the integration of A.I. art into the field. I’m not afraid that it will take our jobs, but I do worry that the lines between Human created and A.I. created art will blur, and integrity amongst artists will be compromized. It is a dazzling tool, however, and I know we will find great uses for it.
“Workout” from Dylan’s personal explorations.
Bella:
What's it like working with We Are Royale? What does being the lead animator/designer entail?
Dylan:
At WAR we do things a little differently. Typically, a Lead Animator/Designer would find themselves mostly delegating and managing people. Because of WAR’s light staff footprint, and our passion for the work, the Leads are still “on-the-box” as it were, typically before the project has even started. We “Lead the Creative '' as our bossboss Brien Holman says, and then we disseminate this special knowledge or technique amongst the rest of the team as the project nears production.
Management was a natural step forward for me at this point in my career, but I just love animating so gol’ dern much that I couldn’t give up being an individual contributor—so I do both.
On bigger projects, I’m definitely finding myself delegating more than animating—but for the most part I straddle the line between Senior animator and management. I learned the hard way that delegating assignments and Animating/Designing are two distinct and very complete jobs, and you can’t do them together very effectively. The lovely people at WAR help me walk that line and help me pick up the slack where needed.
Bella:
When in a creative rut, do you find it helps to step away from what you're working on? Where do you find inspiration?
Dylan:
When I’m in a rut, I find a few things very helpful
1. Just get your first idea on paper, you overachiever, you. Got an idea that you hate because it’s “too basic” or “too obvious” and you can’t think of anything else? Or maybe you don’t have any ideas beyond what was already provided for you? I find it most helpful to JUST DO THE MOST OBVIOUS THING very quickly. Just do it, don’t overthink it. Feel free to keep thinking of ideas, obviously, but your brain just needs some stimulation. Get that idea down on the screen, there ain’t no shame in using your ol’ standby tricks of the trade. Then look at what you got, now tweak it. Still hate it? Please refer to #2.
2. Walk the heck away. Get some water, take a walk, or work on a different aspect of the assignment. Just do something else for a while—ideally with enough time to kinda forget what your art looks like. When I return to a piece after some good time, I definitely have a very immediate reaction, and my first urge gives me a pretty good idea what needs to change/improve; or at the very least, I hate it still and probably need to start over.
3. "Faked-it-til-you-make-ed”. If none of that has worked, boy oh boy, you must be pretty stressed, huh? Well, tough, you’re a hack and you just "faked-it-til-you-make-ed” your little heart out your whole career. Congratulations for tricking literally everyone, everywhere, simultaneously into trusting you. What a mess—your parents were right—wait until your boss finds out you have as much skill as a dressed up Golden Retriever sitting at a computer.
4. Chill out and start fresh. Ok, now that you got all that negative energy out, listen to how ridiculous you sound right now. You’re not a dog. Now breathe. You got this. Now put that thing you made away for a second and start over. I hear you, “But I spent so much time on it, I can’t start over now blahblahblahblah” STOP. Just DO IT. Chill out and start fresh. Stop fiddling with something that’s not working. You’ll either: make something way cooler way than you thought—way faster—and you’ll be very proud of yourself, or hate what you make and that makes the first idea not look so bad after all. At the very least, you’ll get more options for your AD / Client / Sentient Golden Retriever, and they can help steer you in the right direction.
5. Make it fun, silly! We make pretty pictures for a living. Creative brains hate work, so trick yourself into doing work by making yourself laugh. Keep it simple and don’t forget the original reason you started.
Earth Day!
Bella:
Your character animation has a lot of personality, but so does your non-character animation. How do you give personality to something that is not a human?
Dylan:
One main challenge I give myself is to try to move more properties than just the “Position, Scale, and Rotation.” When I just do the ol’ P-S-R, it can look pretty flat and lifeless—try to throw in some path animation, or some clever masking for depth, or maybe slap some effect on there for something unexpected. Surprise your viewer! When you treat a flat shape like a flat shape, it’s gonna look like a flat shape; there, I’ll give you that one for free.
Other than that—it’s pretty much Easing, Drifts, and Overshoots/Bounces.
Easing doesn’t have to be complicated, I have basically 2 Easing curves I use for everything, but that’s a secret so please don’t tell anyone.
Drifts are when something stops moving it kinda just keeps going forever—just like my responses to these questions. Learn how to master this move well and most modern mograph is in your bag. I like to use the loopOut(‘continue’) expression and make my curve kinda end abruptly—that’ll do it.
Overshoots and bounces are essential to breathing life into things. Nothing in this world moves from A to B in a linear way and just stops, nothing kills the illusion of life more than those silly diamond linear keyframes. Introduce ‘em to a nice ease curve and they’ll be living before ya know it.
Bella:
How did you start working with Balkan Bump? Are you interested in working with other musicians as well?
Dylan:
Balkan Bump is a band started by my brilliant buddy Will Magid. He was my neighbor in Oakland and he was always filling the halls with sweet sweet Trumpet sounds. We became friends pretty instantly, because how could you not? I started helping him with his album art and branding pretty soon after that. It has been a very rewarding experience seeing my friend climb in popularity and as a result I’ve gotten to go to his shows and meet some of my favorite music producers like Grammatik, and Opiuo to name a few!
I’ve also been privileged to have worked with one of my favorite bands, Vulfpeck, through a completely different set of friends. Woody Goss, the pianist of the group, asked me to help animate a little Christmas special reminiscent of Charlie Brown one year. It’s still one of my favorite pieces to this day!
I love working with musicians, because a lot of the work gets to be more interpretive and artsy than your everyday commercial work. No one hates you when you make it a little funky.
Bella:
Are there any upcoming projects or anything else you're looking forward to this year?
Dylan:
I am looking forward to getting a few more personal short short animations out there and venturing into the Tiktok world of animation—provided it sticks around with us.
Still from the motion graphic spot for Maksoi.
Bella:
Any final words of wisdom for our readers?
Dylan:
Don’t overwork, don’t burn out; energy is precious and finite. Don’t marry your job and don’t date your coworkers. Then, break every single rule I just said, and have a f*cking blast!
Takeover Tuesday with Kyle Harter
An interview with Kyle Harter: a freelance 2D motion designer based in Orlando, FL..
Interviewer: Bella Alfonsi.
Read time: 5min
Bella:
Kyle! Thanks so much for participating in our Takeover Tuesday series. For those who are not familiar with you or your work, please give us a lil' intro.
Kyle:
Hey there! My name is Kyle Harter, and I’m a freelance 2D motion designer based in Orlando, FL. I add custom 2D motion and design to branded content that drives engagement with my client's intended audience. My work has spanned across explainer videos, digital advertising, commercials, live events, UI/UX, and Film & TV.
Bella:
How do you think going to college has influenced your creative path? Do you think having formal training makes any difference in getting a job in the motion design industry compared to being self-taught?
Kyle:
I went to the University of Central Florida in Orlando. I’m completely self-taught, and didn’t go the traditional route through animation and design courses. However, I did go through the film program in college. I believe that experience really helped me to cultivate and curate my taste, while learning the traditional production process. Of which, I pour lots of time and effort to feeding it and keeping it fresh.
I can only speak for myself here, but I think the self-taught route really teaches a form of discipline that you might not be as quick to in a structured program. You have to be extra guarded of your time and intentions to learning a skillset to step-up your career. I am a bit jealous of the students who go through the formal training route, as there are more opportunities for networking, learning from industry professionals in person, and of course, access to all of the fun tools.
Shot from Kyle’s reel.
Bella:
As someone with several years of experience in the industry, how do you think it's changed over the years? Is there anything you're excited or worried about for the future of motion design?
Kyle:
The industry has changed in a lot of beautiful ways during my time. I think that it’s become one of the more welcoming industries that I’ve been privy to experiencing. From the YouTube tutorials/courses, to the slack/discord groups, and the industry legends who offer quick chats (Ryan Summers) and mentorship, I felt like I was offered free admission to make really cool shit, and have people offer constructive criticism and helpful feedback.
Also, the cost of entry is a lot lower than it used to be with the availability of affordable/free tools.
In terms of concern for the future, there’s the obvious elephant in the room of AI. There’s exciting aspects and concerning aspects of it. At the end of the day though, I do believe the real impact of AI’s implementation is in the user’s hands. There’s a certain amount of responsibility there. I’m excited to see some of the technical parts of our jobs being sped up or automated. That whole process might change the job description of some roles, but at the end of it, it’s the human who has to use it in a professional and ethical way.
Bella:
2D design is your specialty, but you also do some toolkitting, templating, and system development. How did you get into this side of animation and how has it affected your workflow?
Kyle:
I think I got into it the same way I got into learning AE years ago, FEAR. Code, like AE, was always so scary to me because it was a different way of working than the traditional approach of slapping keyframes on a timeline. There was just something about it that motivated me to learn it. Maybe it was to be more in control of something abstract like animation? Who knows haha. Through a lot of time, practice, and asking other smart people lots of questions, I was able to grasp a decent understanding of it, and apply it to my workflow.
It’s affected my workflow in a really efficient way. It helps me to think about creating looks procedurally and with editibility in mind. With that in mind, I use expressions, essential properties/graphics panel, and scripting to automate any part of my workflow. It helps me shut off my computer sooner at night I like to think.
Frame from Kyle’s motion work with Cisco.
Bella:
What made you decide to go freelance full-time? Any advice for someone trying to do the same?
Kyle:
Well I’ve always moonlit as a freelancer when I had full-time gigs. That life was always alluring to me too. The ability to choose what projects you took on, and you could really be in the driver’s seat of your career path are what really drew me in.
In terms of actually taking the leap, I was actually thrown off a cliff into it. I was furloughed in July ’22 from my previous studio gig. I loved the people there, but I had always had this dream of going out on my own. I was resourceful enough to build up a healthy savings during my full-time employment. That helped me jumpstart the business, while still having health insurance until I left for good in September ’22.
My advice would be five-pronged there:
1. Build up a runway of expenses and then some. I’d say minimum of 3 months if possible. We all know how long invoices can take to get paid even if you’re working immediately.
2. Network. Network. Network. I can’t stress this enough. Make sure when you engage people it’s not transactional. Be a human. Get to know people. Let them know what you’re good at, passionate about, and what you don’t like doing.
3. Prioritize your mental health. You will get lonely. You will get stressed about money. You will encounter hardship. If you’re consistently checking in on yourself and giving yourself some space to feel these things, then you’ll be able to make healthier decisions for yourself when it comes to who you work with/for
4. Get a good accountant, and don’t cheap out on it. I sleep a lot better at night knowing the business side of things is in good hands, and I’m not scrambling while trying to outsmart the IRS.
5. Study a bit of personal finance. You’re on your own now. So you have a bit more autonomy in what you do with your money. Reading/studying this can really set you up for future financial decisions.
Bella:
How do you set yourself apart from fellow talented artists when pitching for a project/reaching out to work with a studio?
Kyle:
Your portfolio is always a good indication of the kind of work you’re interested in or are capable of. So I like to think mine is fairly clear in that aspect. That’s half of it though. The other half, the human half, might actually carry some more weight at the end of the day. I stress over-communication, delivering on promises, and anticipating other’s needs when it comes to working on a team. It’s been said before, but a lot of people would rather hire a mid-level artist who carry themselves in a professional way than hire a superstar who is just a giant ball of chaos and bad attitude to work with.
Still from Kyle’s work with Braintrust.
Bella:
Where do you find inspiration? How do you navigate creative burnout?
Kyle:
Like a lot of artists, I find inspiration in everything around me. More specifically, I love art books, films/tv, and interior design too. Especially when people prioritize function over aesthetic. That guides a lot of my inspiration in the wild.
Yeah creative burnout is a doozy. In the past I didn’t do a great job of it. I always thought everything I did had to serve the work I was doing in my 9-5. Now, since I am freelance, I’m able to take intentional time off without guilt. I also feel more joy about just making stuff for the fun of it. Especially when it’s not meant for the reel/portfolio. I just get to have fun and mess up without worrying about meeting a client’s expectation.
Also, therapy is such a healing and helpful process. I can’t recommend it enough.
Bella:
What's your proudest moment in your career thus far?
Kyle:
I’ve been fortunate to work with a bunch of great people, make cool stuff, and even win a few awards. However, I think my proudest moment is to go out on my own, and find success in the form of having control of my life. Not to knock anyone in a staff position, but being a freelancer has been the best fit for my lifestyle and mental health.
Bella:
What's your favorite kind of project to work on and why?
Kyle:
I love a great technical challenge fueled by phenomenal design and stress-free project management. It could be the most corporate thing on the planet, but if there’s great design, fun technical challenges, and really helpful producers then it’s a success in my book. I can’t stress the importance of producers and project managers enough. Please be nice to them. They have one of the toughest jobs out, and we don’t see much of what they go through.
Still from the motion graphic spot for Maksoi.
Bella:
What are you looking forward to this year? Any final words of wisdom for our audience?
Kyle:
I’m looking to try a bunch of different projects in my first full year of freelancing. I’d like to meet a lot of great people, and learn a bit more about managing the business side of things. Other than that, I just want to enjoy the ride I’m on. It’s been great to me so far.
Final wisdom: Remember, you always have a choice in what projects you take on or what direction you head in. Life is short. Do your best to make the decisions that can help you have a fulfilling and rewarding life.
Takeover Tuesday with Jake Sojcher
An interview with Jake Sojcher: a motion designer and visual artist.
Q&A with Jake Sojcher.
Read time: 5min
Matea Losenegger:
Hey Jake! Thank you for taking part in our Tuesday Takeover series. Can you introduce yourself and your work?
Jake Sojcher:
Happy to be a part of it! I am a motion designer and visual artist working primarily with the Adobe Creative Suite, using After Effects, Photoshop, etc. I’m also just generally an explorer, always jumping around between various hobbies relating to art and music.
Matea Losenegger:
What shaped your path into motion design and pursuing a creative career?
Jake Sojcher:
I’ve always loved making things. As a child, I would spend countless hours building spaceships and fortresses with Legos. As I got older, I took various art and music lessons. In high school, I was playing the drums, recording, and mixing audio. Then in college, I got really into photography and video production, so I became a media studies major. I really wanted to pursue a creative career, but I was afraid. I had heard things about how difficult it can be to make it in the creative fields. I was shy and I didn’t have the confidence in my ability to put myself out there. I thought maybe marketing would be a safer creative path, but the only aspect of my one marketing internship that excited me was when I got to assist with a video shoot at the office. After college, I was scraping by on small freelance video gigs, and feeling very unsure if I could make this work. I eventually found a one month temp job editing videos for a local production company. They liked my work, and it turned into a full-time gig. There I got to learn a lot more about the various aspects of post-production. There was another editor on staff who handled motion graphics, and I thought what he was creating was super cool. So I started watching After Effects tutorials on YouTube and asking him for pointers. Eventually when he left, I became the motion graphics guy and the rest is history.
Opening shot from Jake’s reel.
Matea Losenegger:
What inspired your decision to freelance full time and how has the transition been going?
Jake Sojcher:
After a few years at my production company job, I felt like I was ready for new challenges and opportunities for growth. I would periodically apply for jobs at larger companies, but felt discouraged when I consistently wouldn’t hear back. Another coworker of mine had gone freelance, and the idea sounded enticing, but I was also afraid of giving up the stability. Things really changed once the pandemic hit. Until then, I was still very much splitting my time between editing and motion design. But once it became hard to shoot videos in person, I started having opportunities to do even more with motion graphics and really leveled up my skills. I also met my wonderful partner, Lyndsey, on Hinge during the pandemic, and we eventually moved in together. Having a partner who had a steady job, and who gave me lots of encouragement, helped make the idea of freelance feel much more feasible. Then I read The Freelance Manifesto by Joey Korenman, and that was the final push I needed. I left my job, and my boss became my first client. Business was pretty slow at first, but I managed to scrape by. By the end of 2022, after many months of emailing and reel-tweaking, I finally started getting booked more consistently. Work can still ping-pong pretty quickly between very busy and very quiet, so I’m still learning to trust the process. I keep reminding myself that the ebb and flow is just part of freelance life. Overall, I’m really enjoying the lifestyle and the freedom to skip the commute and set my own hours. I especially enjoy having more control over my professional destiny, feeling like my efforts can quickly lead to greater opportunities. I’m really excited to see where the coming years take me.
Matea Losenegger:
From animation to drawing music, photography, and video, you have a pretty diverse skillset - is there a particular medium or type of work you would still like to explore?
Jake Sojcher:
Yes! I’m currently working on building up my illustration skills. I’ve been attending a lot of figure drawing sessions and trying to practice almost every day. Considering most of my work is on a computer, it’s nice to switch it up and spend time with good old pencil and paper. But I’m also working on digital illustration with Procreate and Adobe Illustrator as well. Most of the work I’m hired for involves picking apart graphic art provided by clients and bringing it to life. I’ve dabbled in graphic design enough to scrape things together from scratch when I need to, but I am still learning. I definitely want to be able to animate even more of my own original artwork, both for clients and my own personal projects.
Some characters from Jake’s Crossriver Funding Announcement video.
Matea Losenegger:
As someone with a lot of creative interests, do you find it important to experiment or create work for fun?
Jake Sojcher:
Oh absolutely! One of the big reasons I wanted to go freelance was to free up more time to work on my own projects. I feel very fortunate to be able to do creative work for a living, but there’s also way more I want to do outside of client work. Personal projects are great for building skills I can use professionally, but also for finding my own fulfillment as an artist. It’s nice to have free reign sometimes to make something weird, epic, or silly, with no directions to follow.
Matea Losenegger:
A lot of your work has a very distinct ethereal aesthetic. What inspired this visual flare and where do you seek inspiration from as a whole?
Jake Sojcher:
First off, I love ethereal sounding dream pop bands like the Cocteau Twins, My Bloody Valentine, and Beach House, so that’s definitely a part of it. I’m also influenced by Vaporwave and Cyberpunk inspired art that I see online. I like the use of gritty urban settings decked out with vibrant neon colors. It feels so cinematic with a sense of danger, mystery, and intrigue. I started playing with Photoshop to add a similar flare to photos that I take around the city. Then to take it even further, I started bringing some of my edits to life in After Effects as well.
Jake has been developing art style that fuses photography and Photoshop to create surreal cityscapes.
Matea Losenegger:
Do any of your projects stand out as a favorite?
Jake Sojcher:
I made a silly little animation of an octopus riding the subway, which was my first time trying to implement a character I drew into one of my photo edits. I also recently made an animation of my home office setup, where I animated all the stickers on my laptop as well as various elements of my desk. I even composited a screen recording of the After Effects project onto my monitor in the video to get extra meta with it. I think that came out pretty cool, so I’m proud of that one.
Matea Losenegger:
When it comes to client work, what sorts of assignments pique your interest?
Jake Sojcher:
Recently I’ve done a couple projects I’ve enjoyed with an ad agency called Terri & Sandy. One project was for an organization called Strands for Trans. Their mission is to build a network of trans-friendly barber shops and hair salons around the world. It’s nice to do work for a cause that I can see is doing a lot of good. The other project was for Sennheiser, which was cool for me as an audio nerd and a long time fan of their headphones. The ad featured Dee Snider from Twisted Sister. In terms of future projects, I would love to be able to work on more music related graphics. As a big music fan I’d like to work with local bands to create graphics for music videos, animated album covers, or stage projections.
Dee Snider - Extended Commercial for Sennheiser.
Matea Losenegger:
What advice would you give to aspiring creatives?
Jake Sojcher:
Don’t underestimate the importance of persistence. It can take a lot of reaching out to people and following up before you hit your stride. Also never stop learning and building up your abilities. You can learn just about anything on YouTube these days. If you have skills to offer, and you keep putting yourself out there eventually people will take notice, even if it takes longer than you initially hoped.
Matea Losenegger:
What are you looking forward to in 2023? Are there any creative endeavors you're excited about?
Jake Sojcher:
I feel like my drawing skills are really starting to come along and I’m excited to find new ways to implement them into my work. I’ve also really started to hit my freelancing stride, so I’m really excited to see where the year takes me.
Takeover Tuesday Reece Parker
An interview with Reece Parker: self-taught Animation Director and illustrator.
Q&A with Reece Parker.
Read time: 5min
Matea Losenegger:
Hi Reece! Thank you for contributing your time to our Tuesday Takeover series. Can you tell us a little about yourself and your work?
Reece Parker:
Of course! Thanks for having me. I'm Reece, self-taught Animation Director and illustrator. Subscriber to the famed philosophy "fake it til you make it'. My work leans hand drawn with dark color palettes, but I dive into briefs that range the full spectrum of 2D - and love it all. The more corporate, the more bright and poppy. The more Reece, the more scribbly and dark. 2 sides to one coin really.
Outside of work, I'm a husband and dad to 3 beautiful and intelligent children (Not sure if they actually have my DNA). I also grew up skateboarding religiously, which persists as the foundation of my own personal culture. Fail, start again, fall, get up, on and on. These things influence my work consistently.
Matea Losenegger:
You've been well known in this industry for a while now. How much has motion design changed since you started and what are your thoughts on its future?
Reece Parker:
I discovered and jumped into the industry in early 2016. It was a breeding ground of beautiful and inspired work, from every direction you looked. It was perfect for myself (and young artists like me), with an ambition to join the ranks of those considered great in our field. It was a beautiful time looking back. Empty bank account mind you - but a bursting industry and one that accepted me almost right away.
In 2023, it's still full of beautiful work, but you might have to dig a bit deeper to find it. Industry expanding, client deliverables following suit. But close-knit community might be shrinking a bit. That might be my own small perspective as I become more and more my own island. Or, maybe that's the natural progression of things. This industry is fascinating and beautiful, but maybe less curated and served up on a platter. It has certainly been a shifting landscape for the past several months.
Technology is doing its best to shake up working artists at the current point in time. We will see how that progresses, but I for one stand firmly in the "not worried...yet" camp. It's funny, I was just chatting with a legacy artist in our industry, whose work was among the first of which I was exposed to, about how we might be affected and the validity of our industry moving forward. We all share commonalities but have different perspectives.
To summarize my thoughts on that convo:
Real clients that deserve our protection are the ones that value our input and collaboration. Skillsets might be outsourced, but tastes and ideas are best formulated as a team and in collaboration with clients - relationships. This is something that isn't replaced by technology and is actually the most valuable. For clients that wish for cheaper, easier, faster, and shittier - those clients might flock to AI. Great! Let them. They also have to know exactly what it is they want, how many times have you encountered a client with that certainty..? Taste, ideas, expertise, and collaboration stand as powerful pillars in our industry - despite the tools.
I may eat my words, but Im comfortable with that if it comes in the future. Screens are king, and content is not decreasing in demand.
Looping gif from Reece’s reel.
Matea Losenegger:
As an expert in cel, what makes a compelling animation or character movement?
Reece Parker:
I found myself thinking about this the other day in-depth...by myself.
I think that answer might not be so obvious, animation is diverse - and styles range. Once you have an understanding of timing, you can manipulate it, exaggerate it, work in and out of many softwares, and it be equally beautiful completely realistic, or totally unique.
I think what makes great animation is great design. Strong posing. That's how I see it lately.
For cel or characters specifically, understanding how the body moves and how to position it in your animation. Action is formed first in our brains, and that is limited by our comprehension of how a character might react in reality. Then it can be manipulated or stylized appropriately per the creative, but the foundation is based in reality. Our level of comprehension of that reality "makes or breaks" our shots.
Matea Losenegger:
How did you develop your distinct visual style and how do you keep your ideas fresh?
Reece Parker:
My style is an exercise in evolving over time. I started in this industry with what I thought "motion graphics" was, that being clean vector shapes bopping around. Turns out I had only been exposed to a small (but impressive) corner of motion design at that time. I'm glad I was so short-sided, because the foundation of After Effects forward workflows really balanced my lifetime experience of drawing by hand. When the right time for me to be more artistically driven came along (rather than driven purely by survival) I found my hand-drawn roots ready for me to tap right in. That mixed with a new breadth of knowledge of a whole other form of artistry, more graphic and math driven. The combination of the 2 is really where my style lives. My preference might be to scribble on everything, but that's realistically not the right solution for everything - I understand that. My evolution through this industry has allowed me to deliver on "different" expertise' under the 2D umbrella with confidence and vision indiscriminately.
Still from Trifilm’s short for Microsoft.
Matea Losenegger:
In a similar vein, do you have any tips on how to combat burnout?
Reece Parker:
Burnout! The dreaded burnout. There's no one size fits all solution here. I have had small symptoms of burnout that I have powered through and left in the dust. Other times it has been more all-consuming. Depending on its severity, my first course is to identify it and try to trace it back to its inception. Might have been a lost pitch that I loved that has a lasting effect I wasn't considering. Could be anything! If It's correctly identified, it's a more seamless path through the tunnel and out the other side. If it's being ignored or unacknowledged, how can we realistically work through it? For me it's not always as simple as "take some time off", my work lives and breaths in my head - on and off the clock. "Taking time" off is only beneficial if I've overcome what's affecting me first.
Matea Losenegger:
On your site you say that "from time to time, I will join a project as an animator or illustrator- if the shoe fits." What about a project entices you into those roles?
Reece Parker:
Working in multiple capacities with clients allows me to be more particular about what I take on. It might be as simple as an awesome brief, don't get me wrong - I love this stuff. If there's something that seems challenging and interesting, then great. Or, It might be a legacy client that has supported me from the start, maybe they are in a bind, or maybe they only see me fitting the job. Great, let's knock it out. Relationships above my own ego, and I'm not in the business of burning those that have been there for me.
That being said, what I find most compelling in my current project landscape are projects that mix leadership and artistry. If I can take one shot, while directing the rest of the shots with an awesome team - I'm very stoked. Put simply, I've found that mix of responsibilities really suits my skillset, and the more I've done it the more clear that has become.
Shot from the TIMELORD spot for Battleaxe.
Matea Losenegger:
When pitching for projects, how do you make sure yours stand out in a sea of other amazing studios and artists?
Reece Parker:
I've been pitching like mad! Sometimes we snatch it, sometimes it blows away. It's the nature of the beast. Luckily I'm not completely reliant on pitching, so it's less depressing to be kicked aside. I don't consider myself wholly unique, I just try to be proud of what I present to clients. If I'm not proud of it, I know that there was more I could have poured into it. If I'm proud of it but it goes another way, then I wasn't the artist for the creative. It's really that simple. Stiff competition at the top of the mountain, really really stiff. But Im proud to be considered in those conversations so frequently now. Learning and absorbing all I can.
Matea Losenegger:
What's it like working for a studio like Hornet? What does it mean to be repped by a studio vs working for them as a staff member or freelancer?
Reece Parker:
They are great collaborators, and supportive. We are more intimately collaborative now, more open, and more frequent communication on and off jobs. I'm really excited to be partnered with them and excited about what the future brings.
Outside of that, I work as I always have. My independence is unshakably important to me, so I made sure that was clear in our negotiations. They were and have been supportive through and through.
Being "repped" means that Hornet (in my case, there are many reps) packages up my work and sells it through to their contacts and clients. If there are jobs that come in that feel like they fit my capabilities, they will poke me to see If I'm free and interested. If so, they pair me up with them in their communication and presentation to clients. From there, I champion the vision and creative treatment of the project. Client presentations, team building and expectations, project style and execution, etc. They help me resource the job, schedule it, budget it, communicate with clients, all the things that can be not so-fun solo.
Hornet's reach is as wide as it gets. They also serve a tier of client that Reece Parker as a solo act doesn't reach. They act as my team if we win the project together.
If I win a project solo, and want to bring them in, I also have that ability. Take some of the load off of my plate. But I also have the freedom to tackle it myself, as I have been doing comfortably for many years. Depends on the context rather than one size fits all.
Staff - Im not sure! I've never been staff anywhere but Taco Bell and Costco. Staff artists are there to support jobs that are being directed, and are assigned and scheduled according to their skillset. Hornet also has strong staff artists, that are super super helpful when building out teams in tandem with freelancers or if we can't resource freelance talent for whatever reason.
Freelance - freelancing has a bit more commonality with being repped, and with being staff. You are poked to join a project that is being directed, to fill a need on that production line. That project ends and you join the next team and next project. Instead of jumping to other people's creatives, I find myself more often owning the creative, and trying to source great talent to join me.
Gifs & illos.
Matea Losenegger:
As someone who is revered for their work, is there anything you would like people to know about you outside of your art?
Reece Parker:
The work may be revered, but I don't think Im special. I think the path I've carved may be at least partially unique but also serves as proof of concept for those willing to do the same. LOVE what you do, and keep working at it as a consequence.
Outside of work, I love life. I love my family to death. Wife, kids, parents, siblings, and friends alike. I've been really fortunate, I try to be considerate of that. I love overthinking, analyzing things with Kiara, building things with my dad, and teasing and dancing with my kids. I try to be carefree when it's beneficial to be, and take things seriously that ask for it. It's served me well in life.
I'm a product of independence, my path throughout my life is proof of that. Skateboarding is an individual activity, it's no coincidence that I have remained solo in my eventual career. But I'm not here without the influence and help of so many others. Indirectly or directly from those close to me. Shout out those folks! Much love.
Matea Losenegger:
What does the rest of 2023 look like for you? Are there any projects you're excited about?
Reece Parker:
Some interesting things! I am nearing the end of building out a new warehouse studio. Sort of a dream come true, but so is my current studio honestly. The new endeavor is symbolic of where the business is going, and I wouldn't have invested in it if the business hadn't earned it.
That's something I've really been contemplating. When I was commissioning my shipping container conversion in late 2019, I remember really carefully considering the financial implications of the commitment - mostly just full of anxiety and fear. But I did it because that was what the business deserved at the time. I had those same feelings and reservations about buying my first iMac, as a replacement workstation for my original MacBook that my wife secretly saved for and bought for me to start my career.
It seems so small now in comparison, but those memories serve as a strong example of my commitment to investing back into myself and the business when the time is right. You can feel it, and it's always scary. But the clear lesson is to invest in yourself.
Projects and new things are hush-hush for now, but yes I am excited, and will share more soon! Thanks, Dashers!
Takeover Tuesday Vanessa Appleby
An interview with Vanessa Appleby: an art/animation director who straddles the divide between motion design and traditional character animation.
Q&A with Vanessa Appleby.
Read time: 5min
Bella Alfonsi:
Hi, Vanessa! Thanks so much for joining us for Takeover Tuesday. For those who are unfamiliar with you or your work, please give us a lil' intro!
Vanessa Appleby:
Hi! I'm an art/animation director who straddles the divide between motion design and traditional character animation. I've been in the business for almost 15 years now, and I've had a chance to try on lots of hats over the years.
Bella Alfonsi:
How did your career begin? Did you always know you wanted to be in this field?
Vanessa Appleby:
I did not! I've always been a bit of a renaissance woman. I have a lot of varied interests.
In high school, I started drawing caricatures at a local amusement park. I think this is probably the most influential experience of my youth. It taught me a lot about life, but most importantly, it taught me that I could make money with my art. Funnily enough, I still have friends from this time working in the NYC animation industry today.
When I entered college, I had narrowed down my career path to fashion design or animation (odd, I know), so I chose a school that had strong programs for both. I ultimately decided on animation for what I thought was a shallow reason, but turns out was actually a smart one. I liked the people who were going into the animation major much more than I liked the fashion design students. They were funny, and I love to laugh.
I started my career working as a 2d cel animator in Flash, mostly working on childrens' TV. Over the years I transitioned to AE character animation, which led to compositing, which led to commercial motion design, which led to art directing, which led to now. It's been a wild ride.
Personal project from Vanessa.
Bella Alfonsi:
On your website you explain how out of every job you’ve done, directing is by far your favorite. Why is that?
Vanessa Appleby:
The short answer? I like making a plan and executing the plan. That's easiest to do when you're the director ;)
I also love finding out what my team is passionate about and delegating those tasks appropriately. I want to foster a sense of excitement for everyone who works on my projects. It makes the outcome so much stronger.
Bella Alfonsi:
Do you have any advice for someone trying to become a director themselves?
Vanessa Appleby:
You'll have to pay your dues in the industry before people start trusting you to direct. Be patient, keep trying, and don't be afraid to take on a lower paying gig if you get to run the show. You're not going to get to start directing at one of the big studios right out of the gate. Try working directly with clients (think music videos for example) to get some directed spots under your belt. Once people see what you can do when you're in charge, opportunities will come knocking.
Love is at 35,000 feet - directed by Vanessa.
Bella Alfonsi:
You’ve worked with a ton of different art styles over the years. Do you have a favorite?
Vanessa Appleby:
Nope! I'm ADHD and have always loved experimenting in different mediums and styles. I like to push myself and create something unique. I do especially enjoy vector workflows, but that's not exactly a style per se.
Bella Alfonsi:
Your personal illustrations are so colorful and full of life. I think that although each piece is unique from one another, it is still evident that you created all of them. What insight would you give to someone trying to find their “style”?
Vanessa Appleby:
Ha! I may be the worst person to ask. To be honest, having a "style" has always been a point of contention I've internally wrestled with.
In our business, popular looks/styles come and go. A director who has the current "it" look may not have a long lasting career unless they are able to adapt and change with the times. I wanted to be in this business for the long haul, and being as diverse as possible was key for that. I think no matter what, your hand will always shine through even though you're trying to emulate a different look. Your hand will give you cohesion even if your brain is trying to avoid that.
Style frame for QUEST FOR THE LOST CONSOLE.
Bella Alfonsi:
Where do you find inspiration when starting a project from scratch?
Vanessa Appleby:
Everywhere! I go on long walks through the city and often see funny and inspiring things. I'm also a history dork, so I tend to find inspiration from decorative arts and pattern motifs of the past. Most recently I became obsessed with Medieval illuminated manuscripts and scoured thousands of pages collecting funny marginalia creatures. Explore your passions outside of art. Inspiration can come from anywhere.
Bella Alfonsi:
As someone with 15 years of experience, what do you think the future of motion design looks like? And how is it different now from when you first started out?
Vanessa Appleby:
Motion design is already so different from how it was when I started. The biggest shift I've seen is an uptick in women in the field. Between 2008 - 2015 I was usually the only female on a team. This boggled my mind since my degree program was predominantly women.
Despite this, there were, and still are unfortunately, not many women at the top. I do think with the advent of groups like Panimation that things are beginning to change even more. I just hope it keeps going and the industry becomes even more diverse and inclusive.
Bella Alfonsi:
What is your proudest moment in your career thus far?
Vanessa Appleby:
This is a tough one- I kind of hope it's still to come!
Bella Alfonsi:
Any final takeaways?
Vanessa Appleby:
Keep going! This business can be tough, especially when you're just starting out. If what you're doing isn't getting you the results you want in your career, try a different approach. We're creative people. Don't be afraid to apply that creativity to how you grow your career or earn your money.
Takeover Tuesday with Lili Boisrond
An interview with Lili Boisrond: a mixed media artist specializing in animation and design.
Q&A with Lili Boisrond.
Read time: 5min
Bella Alfonsi:
Thanks so much for joining us for Takeover Tuesday, Lili! For those who aren’t familiar with you or your work, please give us a lil’ intro!
Lili Boisrond:
Hi! My name is Lili, I’m a mixed media artist specializing in animation and design. I grew up in Paris and headed to NYC for university where I ended up staying for 8 years. I’m now back in Europe and rediscovering the pleasures of French cheese vocabulary!
Bella Alfonsi:
How did your career start? Did you always know that you wanted to get into the motion design industry?
Lili Boisrond:
My pursuit of motion design actually started on a miscommunication in choosing a semester class in college. Thinking I enrolled in a drawing class, I ended up in “drawing for storyboard”, which led to experimental animation and later to narrative animation. It was mesmerizing because until then I had too many passions to see a clear career road, always having to choose between visual arts, music and storytelling. The animation world and motion design showed me they can coexist in a larger, multifaceted creation. I love the idea of a “global” piece when it comes to making an animation. Goosebumps.
Shots from Architectural Digest project with IKEA
Bella Alfonsi:
The motion design industry is full of folks who have extensive schooling and some, none at all. In what ways has having a formal education in visual arts, art history, and jazz affected your career? Would you recommend higher-education to others?
Lili Boisrond:
This is a tough question for me. I very much enjoyed taking the liberal arts road for education, but I think it’s such a personal choice. I had no idea what I wanted to do and couldn’t pick between one artistic or academic area so it was an ideal mix for me. When I started working in an animation studio fresh out of college I realized I had literally no technical knowledge. No kidding, on my first day I asked a freelancer sitting next to me how to make something bigger in Photoshop...
I worked my way up with intensive ‘head banging against the wall after effects tutorial marathon nights’ and learned things quickly, but I always wondered what things could have been if I had attended a school like SVA.
Looking back now, I definitely wouldn’t change the path I took and I think there are tons of advantages to being self taught - you have to be quick on your feet and I think it makes you a creatively independent person faster. I’m also happy I get to feed my work with a broader source of education whether it be music, philosophy or literature, it makes you stand out and you can always nourish your technical abilities later on!
Bella Alfonsi:
What’s the animation scene like in Paris? Are your clients mostly French or do you find yourself working more internationally?
Lili Boisrond:
I’ve only been back in Paris for a year now, and I have to admit, the scene is not as fluid and funky as New York. For starters, the freelancing system still feels very new here and it takes way longer to establish a solid relationship of trust with studios. In the US, producers are proactive and understand that if you did a good job in another animation shop, there’s no reason you won’t do great in theirs. Well Parisian studios and agencies don’t quite work the same way… Over the course of one year I would say I worked 90% with my US contacts, and 10% were French gigs that took weeks to find and book. When you’re still on NYC rhythm, the French work system feels SLOW.
Compositing and post-fx work with Mighty Oak on their Affirm project.
Bella Alfonsi:
You’ve worked with a diverse group of impressive clients (IKEA, Lyft, New Balance, etc.)! What advice do you have for freelancers first starting out who dream of working with clients like these?
Lili Boisrond:
What worked best for me has been to constantly nourish relationships with studios. On five projects maybe only one will be creatively interesting to you, but for all the times you helped out on a project that was never-ending, all the not portfolio worthy projects, the day will come that you are their go to person of trust. And that day you will be leading the project and make the creative decisions you were only dreaming of taking!
And if you find the time, don’t underestimate the power that personal projects can have on your portfolio - studios can see how you can handle a project from head to toe and that you’re serious about your work. Make sure you sprinkle a nice explanatory case study breaking down your process on top, and voilà.
Bella Alfonsi:
You’ve worked on so many fun projects over the years. Are there any in particular that really resonate with you?
Lili Boisrond:
Yes! The last project I did this summer before starting a year of studies at Gobelins comes to mind right away. My favorite animation studio - Mighty Oak - asked me to art direct a stop motion project for L.L Bean. It’s not often as a freelancer that you get to work on a project from stage A to Z delivery day, besides personal projects. Since I never specialized technically, I’m the Swiss army knife kind of motion designer and it was just wonderful to use all my toolkit in one project… storyboarding, designing, stop motion, compositing etc. Hopefully it’s the first of many more projects like this.
New Balance - Data Driven Design project.
Bella Alfonsi:
It feels like people are freelancing more now than ever. What’s something you wish you knew before going freelance yourself?
Lili Boisrond:
I was lucky enough to have the advices of friends in the industry who were already freelancing rockstars, and I will say what they said to me - never undersell yourself, only share projects that showcase something you like doing because that’s what people will call you for, start building a strong list of animation contacts and nourish it with clever updates. In short : put yourself out there!!
Bella Alfonsi:
When you find yourself in a creative rut, how do you get out of it? What or who inspires you?
Lili Boisrond:
A few things have worked for me over the years. I’m a strong believer in talking your way out of a creative rut. Your friends and family might not be into discussing style frames or art direction, but even saying things out loud helps. The power of voicing out a problem is incredible, and the best is having a buddy to bounce ideas off of. I’ve been torturing my husband for years and it’s worked wonders!
A second way out is to stop thinking about it. You may think taking a walk or heading out to an art show will be a waste of time when you’re on a deadline, but it will most certainly make you snap out of your blockage faster than sitting at your desk pulling your hair. Who knows what you might see or hear along the way, and by giving your brain a break it will thank you creatively.
Bella Alfonsi:
What do you think the future of motion design looks like? Anything you’re excited about or things that are concerning to you?
Lili Boisrond:
I’m continuously in awe of what humans are capable of creating, the new styles that come out every year, and how we still find novel ways to tell stories to others. But with the huge acceleration in AI with tools like Dalle 2 and Midjourney, I’m concerned (yet still hopeful!) about what the future of our creative industries will look like. Will young teens still doodle on a drawing pad or dab in creative writing when the most common tool of creativity will be writing a prompt for an AI to do it? I’m hoping it will open a door to many creative minds and new ways of thinking, but it does raise a lot of questions on where we’re heading.
Bella Alfonsi:
Any final advice/takeaways?
Lili Boisrond:
No regrets! This is my #1 rule in life. I live by it, I work by it, and most importantly I eat by it.
Takeover Tuesday with Juan Jose Diaz
An interview with Juan Jose Diaz: a Colombian Visual Artist that loves to give life to things with animation.
Q&A with Juan Jose Diaz.
Read time: 5min
Bella Alfonsi:
Hey, JJ! Thanks for taking over a Tuesday with us. Tell us who you are and what you create!
JJ:
Hey Dash Team; thank you so much for having me at Takeover Tuesday. I am Juan Jose Diaz or JJ! I am a Colombian Visual Artist that loves to give life to things with animation; I love to draw and experiment with timing, creating compelling visuals that communicate ideas.
Bella Alfonsi:
What made you make the move from Colombia to the US?
JJ:
I got pretty lucky because my uncle applied for a visa for my family. It took 14 years, but we finally made it, hehe, and the first time I traveled outside Colombia was to migrate to the US.
Transistor Studios - Valentine’s Day Post
Bella Alfonsi:
How has growing up in Colombia influenced you and your work?
JJ:
Oh, it has given me a lot of curiosity and allowed me to learn from artistic referents that use art to talk about serious social issues and reflect on different aspects of being human.
So I always look forward to applying that "idea first over the technique" approach.
Loop referencing the iconic comic "Akira,"
Bella Alfonsi:
Do you have any formal training or are you completely self taught?
JJ:
Yes, in 3D, I studied a 2-year program in 3D animation at night while I was studying Visual arts in college, a 5-year program that I did not finish because we had to migrate. But! of course, I have taken a bunch of online classes and read a bunch of books to improve my practice.
But at a distance, I go back to just wanting to draw, in whatever form that takes.
Bella Alfonsi:
Looking at your portfolio, it appears you are a cel animation wizard. Is this your favorite method of animation?
JJ:
Yes, after a couple of years dealing with the crashing of 3D software, I started to find it easier at the beginning to translate my ideas with drawings without having to be a generalist expert in 3D to model, texture, rig, render, etc.
Vegan World.
Bella Alfonsi:
What’s your workflow like when cel animating?
JJ:
First, thumbnails, where all the crazy ideas appear, tiny drawings trying out different compositions, thinking a lot on the negative space. Then translate that into some rough keyframes, and to find out the right timing, I do a bunch of tests just moving balls around (Everything is on the 12 principles); once that is done: time to do more rough frames, then the tie-down and finally the long process of cleaning so I get comfortable with a nice podcast or music and just work. I feel this is the time when animation gets closer to meditation.
Bella Alfonsi:
You’ve worked on a bunch of fun projects over the years, do you have a favorite?
JJ:
For a client, it will be the project for Baqsimi that I did with Ataboy Studios. I got to animate a dynamic scene and used my 3D background to block out the camera and reference the movement to translate that into drawings.
And a personal one will be the appropriation that I did of one of the Akira pages when in 2020, with all the racial issues going on in the US, I contributed with a loop reinterpreting Akira and the fight for human rights.
Project for Baqsimi which helps patients with diabetes.
Bella Alfonsi:
Who are some artists that you look up to and/or inspire you to create what you do?
JJ:
Sebacuri because his career amazed me, he has been able to develop a bunch of new skills seeing him going from being another motion designer to an illustrator with his own voice and making a living from that. And jonathan_djob_nkondo, because he is a master of timing, the way he works, those keyframes are definitely an artistic statement.
Bella Alfonsi:
What are you most proud of in your career thus far?
Rohan McDonald:
Being in a place I never imagined, not even two years ago, having met incredible people along the way, and having a career that supports my hobbies between extreme sports and travel.
Short animated piece for the LA Galaxy soccer team.
Bella Alfonsi:
Any advice/final takeaways?
Rohan McDonald:
Life is an incredible ride full of surprises. You will never know where you will be in 10 years, so keep learning about everything, not just art; keep making mistakes and make sure you take care of YOURSELF!
Takeover Tuesday Rohan McDonald
Dash animator, Bella Alfonsi interviewed animator, illustrator, and director, Rohan McDonald and we’ve got the scoop on it all!
Q&A with Rohan McDonald.
Read time: 5min
Bella Alfonsi:
Rohan! Thanks so much for being a part of our Tuesday Takeover series. For those who are unfamiliar with you or your work, please tell us a bit about yourself and what you do!
Rohan McDonald:
Thank you all for having me!
I’m an animator, illustrator, and director based in Boston, MA, USA. I create work from a 2D hand drawn perspective, primarily focusing on cel animation. I also love working with printed media and reading independent and self published comics. Beyond that, I enjoy rock climbing with my fiance, tinkering with music production and composition (occasionally), and repeatedly watching the Lord of the Rings behind the scenes documentaries.
Bella Alfonsi:
What inspired you to get into the motion design world?
Rohan McDonald:
I didn’t really understand that motion design was an option for me until sophomore year of college. I went to the School of the Art Institute of Chicago (SAIC) thinking I would be some combination of a painter and editorial illustrator. It became apparent rather quickly that I wasn’t a painter, at least in a fine art setting. In my first few years of school I felt like I had something to prove, so every piece would be about trying to impress people or show off. My painting professor at the time even went so far as to say “Rohan, you’re a really nice guy, but this is terrible.” After that righteous burn, I reconsidered what I was interested in, and came to the conclusion that I just love drawing. So I signed up for Intro to hand drawn animation, which was entirely on paper and entirely about drawing. I loved film and TV and also did some theater as a kid, so it was the perfect combination of acting, drawing, and film for me.
After that class, I wanted more digital animation skills. That’s when I got a crash course in photoshop, After Effects, and how to bring your hand-drawn paper work into digital space. The work we watched in that class brought me closer and closer to motion design as a future career. I would talk to professors outside of class about how to achieve certain looks I was going for and what to watch. So I sought out things like “Late Night Work Club,” where I saw films from artists like Nicolas Menard, Charles Huettner, and Alex Grigg. Then people like Sophie Koko Gate, Caitlin McCarthy and “Parallel Teeth,” appeared on my radar. All of these artists showed me that there was a really intriguing mix of graphic design, print media aesthetics, and cel animation to experiment with. I remember just feeling excited to get out into that world, even just to make commercial work, because I could play.
I then cold emailed every studio/agency in Chicago that created work in the motion design space. I sent over a short 30s reel in search of an internship, a part time job, anything really. I got a fair amount of responses! At the time that was surprising, but the Chicago motion design community is really small, tight knit, and welcoming.
I ended up at Demo Duck as an intern. After my internship, I worked part time at Demo Duck until I graduated. Then Demo Duck hired me full time as a junior art director! I spent the next 3 and a half years at Demo Duck and learned so much on the job, eventually being promoted to Art Director. It was like going to grad school, but without the debt. I really got to put in the time and see Demo Duck grow as a company, in addition to seeing the industry grow and thrive.
“Thanks for Asking” project with Demo Duck
Bella Alfonsi:
Do you have any kind of formal training or are you completely self taught?
Rohan McDonald:
This is a hard one. I definitely have formal training in cel animation and some in drawing overall. But when it comes to graphic design, and digital animation, I learned through a mix of more general SAIC courses, YouTube tutorials, and asking people how they did things. In addition to my own painstaking trial and error. However, I owe a lot to my SAIC professors Joel Benjamin, Shelley Dodson, Matt Marsden, and Jim Trainor, who taught me how to think about film and motion media overall.
When it comes to more soft skills (client communication, organization, timelines + budgeting) and motion design specific stuff, I really learned through immersion. Through Demo duck, I got to go to conferences like Blend and Comotion, in addition to working with amazing freelancers like Zak Tietjen, Milton and Valeria from Notreal, and Martiniano Garcia Cornejo from Fu Imagery (to name a few). I also got to work with the best in house team of producers, art directors, creative directors, and writers, all of whom taught me so much and supported my independent work and my career growth. It was a working experience that really spoiled me in the best way, and gave me lifelong friendships.
Frame from Rohan McDonald’s 2021 Reel
Bella Alfonsi:
As someone who does both animation and illustration/design, do you prefer to do one over the other and why?
Rohan McDonald:
It really depends! I go through waves. Sometimes I’m really tired of animation and sometimes I’m tired of design.
It also depends on the style I’m working with. For certain styles, I like doing more design and illustration rather than motion, and for other styles I like taking more ownership of the entire pipeline. It also depends on the structure of the project: Am I going through an agency, through another director/studio, or is it direct to client? That being said, I love the pre-pro development side of things. And that’s often times a design + motion test kind of process.
But at a distance, I go back to just wanting to draw, in whatever form that takes.
Bella Alfonsi:
Animating by hand is a great way to fully understand the principles of animation and have complete control over what you’re creating. Do you think it’s important that all animators know how to do it the good ol’ fashioned way (by hand)?
Rohan McDonald:
Another hard one! Before I answer this fully, I have a hot take: not all of the 12 traditional animation principles have to be your bible (side note: the “Appeal” principle really frustrates me and feels like an unhelpful and subjective Richard Williams-ism). I know, I know, controversial.
I think animation now is so diverse, experimental, and often times technology driven, to the point where you can accomplish a lot in motion design without having the hand drawn animation background. That being said, you need to know how to think about animation and understand why something might not be working. That’s where an awareness of traditional animation principles comes into play.
So let’s say your simple mograph match cut transition is looking abrupt and startling. Having awareness of traditional animation ideas like anticipation, follow through, and timing will help you tweak that speed graph or adjust the distance between those keyframes to smooth it out. So no, I don’t think people need to know how to hand-draw animation, but knowing the thinking behind the old ways will make you a strong animation warrior.
SupplyFrame NPI Explainer Video
Bella Alfonsi:
I’m sure it’s hard to pick, but do you have a favorite project you’ve worked on?
Rohan McDonald:
I’ve gotten to be part of a lot of great projects in the past few years. One that stands out to me is a project from early 2021, which was a really simple but “vibey” music video for Liam Kazar’s song “Nothing To You.” I had a lot of freedom and I didn’t plan a lot of things out. And interestingly enough, it wasn’t a cel animated project. I just jumped into After Effects with a few rough designs and created tons of loops. Working with that type of improvisation is really fun and low pressure. I’m excited to do more of that in my personal work.
Frame from Liam Kazar’s song “Nothing To You” music video.
Bella Alfonsi:
Your portfolio is full of so many different art styles-from simple shapes with minimal color to more illustrative with lots of bright colors-do you have a favorite style to work in?
Rohan McDonald:
It’s been hard for me to focus on any particular style, or set of tools to work with. I love trying out a style and then trying to add something new, or just explore how I do it specifically. That being said, I usually start off with a line-based pen sketch, so I tend to gravitate towards a line-based illustrative style.
I think there’s a frustrating notion that you have to “find your style” to get work or be noticed as an illustrator and animator. And to some extent that is true. But I have another hot take here: having a style doesn’t have to mean doing the same type of thing over and over again. It can be finding out how your specific perspective translates to different mediums, color palettes, and tools. While algorithms love consistency, oftentimes you can recognize someone’s creative voice no matter what medium they’re in, as long as they’ve experimented and cultivated that voice (which I still struggle with sometimes).
Bella Alfonsi:
What’s the workflow like for a freelance director? Are there any big challenges you’ve had to overcome?
Rohan McDonald:
I’ve been part time freelancing for a while, but 2022 was my first year as a full time freelancer, so there were a ton of challenges!
To be honest, my biggest challenges have been messaging/making sure people understand my offerings while balancing direction projects vs. projects with more specific roles (i.e. cel animator, AE animator, storyboard artist, illustrator). I think this is where my previous point about style becomes relevant. I do a lot of different things, and so I have a lot of different types of projects come along, so I have to plan my time in a way that allows me to flex all those different muscles effectively. Without that stylistic focus, sometimes my freelance workflow has to be re-thought and adapted. And that’s rewarding, but difficult!
Still frame from “Rooms.”
Bella Alfonsi:
“Rooms” is a really fun piece and I love the unique take on connecting mental space with physical space. I see that it’s also been featured on Motionographer, Aeon Magazine, Good Moves, and on Vimeo’s Staff Pick (congrats!!). Can you tell us a bit more about this one and how it came to be?
Rohan McDonald:
Thank you! “Rooms” started out as a series of risograph printed artbooks that I created with my college roommates Lucas Reif and Austin White, who are both amazing designers and collaborators. They had been working through “ShelfShelf,” a small publishing collective. I don’t remember who had the idea to interview people about their spaces, but we all ran with it and conducted our own interviews with family and friends. Lucas and Austin handled the type design, layout, and printing. Then I did all the illustration, and helped with file set up and assembly. We really love the way they turned out and I thought there was a film in there as well. The illustrations were so fun to draw and I thought it would be even more fun to make them move. This was around 2018.
Cut to the pandemic and everyone is experiencing some awareness of physical space and mental space. Everyone remembers how it felt. I used that time to truly investigate how this film could work and what narratives I could find in common between interviewees. I combed through all of our audio, and what started off as a ten minute film was edited down to around two minutes (dodged a bullet there).
The biggest production challenge was creating a workflow that didn’t feel stale or forced. I was working full time at home and it was difficult to find the intrigue and joy in creative work sometimes, especially when going from one screen to another. So I decided to do two things differently: Use rough animator on my iPad for all the rough animation, and delve into Animate CC, a software I hadn’t used a ton at that point. Rough animator allowed me to work more spontaneously and Animate CC gave me clean lines and quick fills that I could apply subtle effects to in AE. Changing up my process really worked out this time around, and Rooms came together with the help of two additional animators (Sofia Diaz, Dena Springer) and a sound designer/composer (Limes and Cherries).
I’m very happy I took my time with it, and I learned a lot. Although I’m glad my girlfriend at the time (now fiancé) pushed me to finish it.
Bella Alfonsi:
Any advice/final takeaways?
Rohan McDonald:
There are always multiple ways to do something, especially in animation. Not everyone needs the perfect AE script or the latest plugin to make things work. Just explore and find the way that you like to do things! And I’m also still trying to figure out how I do things. That will be a lifelong pursuit!
Takeover Tuesday Scott Hoch
An interview with Scott Hoch: a freelance motion designer from Detroit, Michigan.
Q&A with Scott Hoch.
Read time: 5min
Matea Losenegger:
Hi Scott! Can you introduce yourself and explain what you do?
Scott Hoch:
Howdy! Thanks for having me, I’m stoked to be here. My name is Scott, I’m a freelance motion designer from Detroit, Michigan. I also teach digital animation part time at my alma mater, College for Creative Studies (CCS). I like birds, movies, coffee, and making pixels move on screens. Lately I’ve been really thinking about my identity as an artist and where I want to go from here. It’s the beginning of the year so it’s a time of self reflection. I'd say you reaching out to me was good timing because I wanna talk about it!
Matea Losenegger:
What sparked your interest in design and animation?
Scott Hoch:
As long as I can remember I’ve loved drawing and making people smile. I drew all through elementary school, designed t-shirts for my friends' screamo bands in high school, and after that I got an animation degree from CCS. My ambitions were never really focused, I only knew I wanted to do creative work, make a decent living, and make others happy. At one point in college I MAYBE thought I could move to LA, work in TV or feature animation as an artist. Maybe even direct movies. It turns out LA is super competitive and the housing market is a complete joke. If I didn't get a job after graduation I'd be completely screwed but I did not want to move across the country away from my family to MAYBE get a job that hardly covers rent not to mention my debt. I needed to find a different path.
It was around this time that I was introduced to both After Effects and the Detroit Mograph community. Not only was I hooked on this program that could seemingly make magic happen at the push of a button; there was a whole industry outside my front door welcoming me with open arms. There really is something special about a bunch of Midwestern nerds all into the same nerdy shit as you. I instantly felt like I belonged. Soon after I graduated I got an internship as a motion designer for a mortgage company where I learned the ins and outs of the studio system. Two years later, Julie Craft convinced me (and the rest of Boxfort basically) to quit my job and go freelance.
I'm so happy that I didn't have to move away from home to be an animator. Detroit has such a unique identity that is a part of me; I don't know if I’d fit in anywhere else. It’s the perfect sized city, not too big, not too small and there’s lots of nature in the area too! There are so many more artists and creative folks here than anyone would guess because that part isn’t talked about nearly as much in the news. Heck, I didn’t even know it until I was in college. I love Detroit, I could go all day but I’ll leave it at that. Come visit!
Opening shot from Scott’s Demo Reel.
Matea Losenegger:
What’s it like being a part of an animation collective like Boxfort and how often do you all get to collaborate?
Scott Hoch:
It’s the BEST! At its core Boxfort is just a coworking space that a group of friends share so we don’t go crazy working from home all the time. Though, to be honest, I only go in a few times a week. One of my goals this year is to go more often regardless of if I’m booked or not. It’s a wonderful space with cool vibes, hacky sack, movie nights and, yes, there is LaCroix in the fridge. As far as collaboration we all work on such different projects it’s not common that we collaborate on client projects. Sometimes 2 or 3 of us can work together on a larger project but we’ve never truly staffed up to work on a big campaign like a studio would. I think we all prefer being independent. I also think we prefer putting our collaborative potential into short films and music videos. Deep down we’re all storytellers and we love working together to make our ideas a reality. I know all of us at Boxfort are itching to produce more shorts this year so stay tuned!
Matea Losenegger:
You have a slick, succinct reel with a strong intro and outro. What was the thought process behind it and what would you say makes a compelling reel overall?
Scott Hoch:
Maybe an obvious answer but thanks to the internet age everyone’s attention span has been completely obliterated. People can process information really really fast these days which means they can also get bored really fast. I read somewhere that art directors will know within 15 seconds of a reel if they’re going to hire someone. I have no idea if that’s true but why risk it? The intro and outro is one of my happy places. I think everyone should keep a list of their most favorite places and memories. Whenever I have trouble drawing something I just think of clouds, trees, water, sand, lots of stuff! A lot of my art is very intuitive, my hand takes me where my heart wants to go. I love the beach, I love the way it makes me feel. When people watch my reel I want them to be sucked in by the cool ocean breeze and calm waves right before I bombard them with crazy visuals. Then as soon as the reel is really getting you amped up it’s over and we’re looking at a nice pretty wave again. You gotta ease in and ease out amirite?
Half Rez 8 Opening Titles
Matea Losenegger:
I really love the use of color across your portfolio. What is your strategy in creating a successful palette?
Scott Hoch:
There are tons of sites that will show color palettes from different movies or from nature that you can use and I think over time I’ve gotten a better sense for making my own. Coolors.co is a really great site to generate quick palettes that work well together. I'm also fortunate to work with a lot of incredible illustrators that are much better with color than I am. Perhaps from animating their designs I've gotten better at color from osmosis. Honestly I never thought of myself as having good colors so I really appreciate you saying that!
Matea Losenegger:
Is there a particular type of project you like to work on?
Scott Hoch:
Any project where I can collaborate with kind talented people are the ones I like best. Seeing others bring their A game inspires me to do my best. It also helps when my values align with the mission of the company I’m working for. Beggars can’t be choosers in the freelance world but I definitely feel better when I believe the work I’m doing is helping people. I’ve been fortunate to provide animation services to some non profits in the area and would love to do more “good” work with the skills I have.
Matea Losenegger:
Who would be your dream client or artist to collaborate with?
Scott Hoch:
As an avid birder I would do anything to work with the National Audubon Society. Conservation is a very important cause to me and I would be over the moon if any of my work someday helps with wildlife conservation efforts. Lower down the list but still big dream clients for me would be any climate change organizations, any local Detroit businesses or even small coffee brands. So if any Detroit coffee shops that do charity work for birds by tackling climate change are reading this, I’m your guy.
Shot from Scott’s Abstract Waving Loops
Matea Losenegger:
As a seasoned freelancer, what are some of the challenges and benefits that come along with the lifestyle?
Scott Hoch:
I'm sure you've heard this a thousand times but the biggest benefit of freelance can also be its biggest challenge. You are your own boss. It's up to you to keep yourself busy working on your business both on the clock and off. Your schedule is more flexible but you're constantly thinking about your next gig, your taxes, networking, healthcare, retirement, death, taxes, marketing yourself, editing that reel you'll never finish, social media, taxes, etc etc etc. It's a good gig if you've up for the challenge but it's not for everyone. I love being freelance but I'm not sure what the end game is and can see myself going staff one day if the stars align.
Matea Losenegger:
Do you have any advice for aspiring creatives or freelancers out there?
Scott Hoch:
I think art can be an addiction much like any passion. When you're young you're filled with so much anxious energy to create as much work as possible to improve and hopefully get a job. It's good to light a fire under you for a while. But someday that light is going to burn you and if you're not careful it could completely engulf you. Take breaks. Go on trips. Spend time with your loved ones. Art isn't worth sacrificing your health for. I tell my students this all the time but the immense pressure they’re put under, the greatness we expect from them, it’s no wonder why so many artists are nervous wrecks.
In this modern world we live in, everything has been commoditized and our eyeballs are currency. Companies are competing to get the most eyeballs to watch their thing for 6 to 30 seconds before they click or swipe away. I keep saying I’m an artist, that we are artists but that isn’t true. We are content creators. Just throwin’ more chum into the garbage disposal that is the internet. I’ve spent so much of my time in recent years fixing my relationship with art. How does one create something worth anything in a world that’s on fire? What’s the point? And don’t even get me STARTED on AI art.
Clearly I have a ways to go but I feel hopeful for the future somehow. Maybe the point is to defiantly do what makes you happy against all odds. There is still a lot of beauty out there in the world and I want to capture it. Life moves pretty fast. If you don’t stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it. I came up with that quote, don't look it up.
Mograph Mondays - Detroit
Matea Losenegger:
What does 2023 look like for you? Are there any projects you’re excited about?
Scott Hoch:
My schedule is actually wide open right now as far as client work is concerned (cough cough hit me up). I think 2023 is going to be a big year of growth for me. The last few years I’ve felt a bit stagnant with my personal art (see above, re: world on fire) but I’ve been taking some online courses and drawing in my sketchbook more lately. Turns out art IS still fun! I really want to add more storytelling to my work like a concept artist would. I want to play with lighting and color and value. Heck, maybe I’ll take up gouache. I feel like I’m finally ready to open the door to growth and the world feels wide open to me again. We’re always told to stay curious and enjoy ourselves but it’s easier said than done. Thank you again so much for reaching out to me and giving me the opportunity to chat! I hope everyone has a great 2023!
Matea Losenegger:
This was great! Thanks, Scott.
Takeover Tuesday Abbie Bacilla
An interview with Abbie Bacilla: 2D and 3D motion designer and illustrator.
Q&A with Abbie Bacilla.
Read time: 5min
Matea Losenegger:
Thank you for taking part in our Tuesday Takeover series! Can you give us a little insight into you and your work?
Abbie Bacilla:
Thank Y’ALL for considering me for Tuesday Takeover! My name is Abbie Bacilla, I’m a 2D and 3D motion designer and illustrator. I work primarily in tech, but love to do character animation on the side.
Matea Losenegger:
What made you pursue design and animation as a career?
Abbie Bacilla:
Animation was always something I wanted to pursue; I wanted to work for Cartoon Network or Disney when I was in high school, but CalArts was (and is) way too expensive. Instead, I went to a small liberal arts college and shifted to graphic design, because I thought it would lead to more jobs. While in college, I happened upon a night class for motion design. My professor gave me the impression that it was way easier and faster than frame-by-frame animation, so I gave it a shot. I ended up liking it so much, I shifted my whole career to it!
Excerpt from How Conservatives Created Cancel Culture #shorts
Matea Losenegger:
What is it like to work at Frame.io on a platform that’s growing so fast within our industry?
Abbie Bacilla:
It’s incredibly exciting to work for a product that other motion designers use. It’s the reason I wanted to work for Frame.io in the first place – it’s a great product with great people working on it! I’ve been at Frame for almost five years, and I’ve had the privilege to watch the company grow from under 100 to over 500. It’s a unique situation for sure, and made me learn a lot of motion techniques and soft skills very quickly. I highly recommend working in a small in-house team at least once; it’s very rewarding to build a brand and make content with a tight-knit group of creatives.
Matea Losenegger:
How would you describe your art style and what was the path that brought you to it?
Abbie Bacilla:
I like to keep my Frame.io and personal art styles separate. My Frame.io “art style” is more about the motion; we like to look at the minimalist typography trends that other tech and film brands are achieving and apply it to our own brand voice. My personal art style stays in the realm of round, colorful and expressive characters, mainly in 2D but sometimes in 3D. I love stretching and exaggerating emotions with a character’s face and body language.
Playing Cards - character loosely based off of King Henry VIII & Anne Boleyn
Matea Losenegger:
The characters you create are so fun and playful. What is your process for bringing them to life?
Abbie Bacilla:
In the beginning, LOTS of pinterest boards and instagram bookmarks. I try to actively seek inspiration rather than wait for it to jump in my lap. I’m mainly inspired by runway fashion, drag, video games, cartoons, and my own life experiences. When I’m sketching, it’s really important for me to streamline the character’s shape language and cut unnecessary detail. In the future I’d like to experiment with more geometric, sharp character designs, rather than my usual bubbly style.
Matea Losenegger:
Do any of your projects stand out as a favorite?
Abbie Bacilla:
My short film that I launched in October, Spacepup, is my favorite so far! It was originally created for the anthology series Things Took a Turn, but I’ve submitted it to a multitude of festivals in New York. I’m hoping it’ll get selected for at least one, so I’ll be able to watch it on a big screen with my best friends in 2023.
Matea Losenegger:
What was one of your most challenging assignments?
Abbie Bacilla:
The first fully-3D launch video I made, Frame.io’s iPad app in 2019. I had a very rudimentary knowledge of Cinema4D at the time, and was limited to Arnold as a third party renderer since I only had an iMac Pro to work with. I was put in charge of the story and boards, so I had to partially direct all the live action bits. I learned a lot from creating that video, and it gave me a taste of what a director role would look like!
Frame.io for ipad
Matea Losenegger:
I see you’re a four-time School of Motion alumni and have a wide skill set in 2D and 3D. Are there any areas in animation that you haven’t explored yet or would like to?
Abbie Bacilla:
There are too many things to learn! I know every motion designer is saying this, but I’m going to try and dive deeper into Blender. I follow a lot of Blender artists on Twitter and they’ve inspired me greatly. Other than that, I’m at a point in my career where I need to double down and expand/improve what I can do with Cinema4D and After Effects. Cinema4D is just a rabbit hole of possibilities. I just need the right project to inspire me to learn more!
Matea Losenegger:
On your site you mention that some of your hobbies include video games and drag shows. Have you found any inspiration from those things for your work?
Abbie Bacilla:
Yes, absolutely! There are so many creative AAA and indie games that inspire me all the time – my latest favorites have been Pokemon Scarlet/Violet, Hades, and Cult of the Lamb. I’d love to create 2D character animations and assets for an indie game someday, ideally for a side-scroller like Cuphead or a fighting game like Skullgirls.
As for drag, it’s not the most obvious source of inspiration for motion design, but that’s why I love it! Drag is great inspiration in terms of color palettes, shape language, visual storytelling, comedic timing and motion in general. I’m a queer artist living in NYC, so I have an abundance of local drag I can go see. But I also watch shows like Rupaul’s Drag Race and Dragula – they’ve really popularized the art form and made it more accessible. Highly recommend both shows as well as supporting the local drag in your area!
School of Motion Manifesto
Matea Losenegger:
What does 2023 look like for you? Are there any projects or upcoming endeavors you’re excited about?
Abbie Bacilla:
I’m collaborating with a friend on a character-heavy short, which I’m very excited for. Other than that, I haven’t consistently kept up with my drawing since covid started. I think 2023 will be the year I develop my visual style and start posting illustrations and 3D renders more.
Matea Losenegger:
What advice would you give to aspiring creatives?
Abbie Bacilla:
This is a common one, but I would find a hobby or source of joy outside of motion that can inspire your work. For example, my latest short film was inspired by my dog Ernie. Not that I’m saying to get a dog – it’s a big responsibility and it’s not for everyone – but it could be pottery, a sport, a tabletop game, book club, anything that will get you outside your home and office and talking to people!
Matea Losenegger:
Thanks so much, Abbie! This was a great chat.
Takeover Tuesday Zak Tietjen
An interview with Zak Tietjen: an animator & illustrator/designer living out in Columbus, Ohio.
Q&A with Zak Tietjen.
Read time: 5min
Mack Garrison:
Zak! I've been lucky enough to work with you over the years, but for those that don't know who you are, tell us a bit about yourself.
Zak Tietjen:
Thanks so much for having me! I’ve really enjoyed reading other interviews of people I’ve admired & some friends of mine.
I’m an animator & illustrator/designer living out in Columbus, Ohio. I love working on a variety of projects from 2D shape animation to cel animated characters and all the way to realistic 3D animation. I have a wife, 2 little girls and 2 dogs who I love spending my free time with at playgrounds, hiking, or cooking up some new recipes.
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Excerpt from Zak’s reel
Mack Garrison:
As more and more folks choose to live and work in smaller markets, tell us a bit about how you were able to build a successful freelance career in Ohio.
Zak Tietjen:
Honestly, I feel like I sort of stumbled into it. I’ve been freelancing for about 6 or so years now and thankfully I’ve been able to build up a lot of connections outside of Ohio. It started slow but it was very important to me to build up trust with any studios/agencies/clients that I worked with. Never miss a deadline, always communicate when you need more time or don’t know a certain skill/technique (but willing to learn), and try to meet or exceed expectations for the project. And honestly, just don’t be a jerk haha. These are all things that several people before me have said, but following those loose guidelines is what I think allowed me to thrive working remotely, before the pandemic made it more common. After doing that enough, you start to get good word-of-mouth. Friends would recommend me for projects or studios would come back because they know I’ll make it easier for them by working hard and hitting deadlines.
Marvel Studios’ Moon Knight - Main On End Title Sequence.
Mack Garrison:
Let's jump into style. How would you describe your aesthetic and your work?
Zak Tietjen:
Oof, that’s a tough one. I’ve been told that I have a certain style but I guess I don’t really see it that way. Admittedly, I love dabbling in a bunch of different styles but I think what people see as a through line is how I animate. I love bringing some of my humor into my character work, when possible. My wife won’t admit I’m funny, so I like to use my work as an outlet. I also really love a nice blend of styles, since that reflects a bit of my skillset. When there’s a lovely blend of 3D & 2D (heck, throw collage in there too!), that’s what excites me! I get bored staying within the same style and I like to jump around. It might also be a bit of envy (or overconfidence haha) when I see artists I admire creating amazing work in other styles and I think to myself “Oh! I want to try that!”.
Mack Garrison:
What are some of your favorite types of projects to work on? Do you have a favorite project from over the years?
Zak Tietjen:
What I love about this industry is that there is such a massive variety of mediums that we can work in. I could be working on some fun cel animation and brush up on my drawing skills, or finding new ways to keyframe some bouncy shapes in After Effects. Then I’ll get tactile and step away from the computer to explore some collage style animation, or rig up some goofy 2D characters. And there are so many opportunities that excite me. The majority of my work is what I’d consider ads, but I’ve also done title sequences, billboards in Times Square, UI animation for tech conferences and graphics for large sports stadiums. Because I’m able to hop around a lot, I think that helps keep each project interesting.
A couple times a year I’m asked to give a talk to the seniors at my alma mater Bowling Green State University and I always try to explain to them that working in this industry doesn’t have to feel like you’re doing “soul-sucking ad work”. I try to find opportunities in every project to do something I consider fun. Whether that’s taking a 2D illustration and giving it a bit of faux 3D in After Effects or pushing the creative a little bit beyond what’s expected. This also brings it back to building that trust and trying to exceed expectations, when possible. Each project presents its own challenges, and at my core, I’m a problem-solver. It’s fun for me to break down a challenging shot and see how we can break it down into smaller actions.
Mack Garrison:
Who are some artists and studios that really inspired you?
Zak Tietjen:
That’s always a tough question to keep concise haha. I find inspiration from so many things and artists, but I’ll try to avoid the usual freelancers & studios that everyone is familiar with. Nocky Dinh is an amazing artist who I had the pleasure of working on Hawkeye with and I was blown away by her talent. She can seemingly crush both 2D & 3D styles. Continuing the trend of title design, Arisu Kashiwagi was another amazing artist who I found on Instagram and I was surprised how much of her work I already had seen & loved. And then Petrick is a collective I believe in Germany, but they’re chock-full of absolutely stellar designers & animators. Everytime they release something online I’m blown away by the wonderful blend of styles and humor. And you know I’m a sucker for people who blend multiple styles together.
Marvel Studios’ Hawkeye - Main On End Title Sequence
Mack Garrison:
What are some things folks should consider before they go freelance?
Zak Tietjen:
For a lot of people, going freelance straight out of college sounds both appealing and terrifying haha. I know it’s obvious, but you’re all on your own. You will often need to communicate directly with clients without the buffer of a studio, so you want to make sure you have good communication skills. For me, I think it helps to have worked in a studio for a few years so that you have an understanding of the full process, from producers to art directors and sound mixers. And one of the bigger tasks that often deters people from freelance is time & money management. If you have a partner or even children, those are big factors. My kids are eating machines, I need to make sure I’m planning our finances out months in advance.
It’s great to work for yourself and build your own schedule but you’re solely responsible for everything. Sometimes getting a nice check at the end of a project, it’s tempting to go get that new gadget in your amazon wishlist, but you have to plan ahead and make sure you have funds set aside for taxes as well. I could go on and on about all of the boring ‘adult things’ you should consider before freelance (I didn’t even talk about insurance or retirement!) but I’ll spare everyone haha.
Mack Garrison:
What's the hardest part of working for yourself and what's the best part?
Zak Tietjen:
I know it’s not for everyone, but I actually really enjoy working from home. I like being able to decide my own schedule. Over the years, I’ve begrudgingly forced myself to be a morning person, so I really enjoy waking up early and starting on work for a couple of hours before the kids wake up, and then spending time with them before school. This also allows me some time to go to the gym, which I think really helps fight off that feeling of sitting at a computer all day.
Skater boi Zak
I’m also the chef in the house and we have a lot of mouths to feed, so if I’m ahead on my work, it’s nice that I can start prepping for dinner or run to the grocery store.
On the other hand, being solely responsible for your work & income can be a bit daunting. Thankfully, I feel like I’ve made enough friends and have a good system of keeping track of my invoices & upcoming projects that it’s rarely an issue, but occasionally there’s still that self-doubt in my mind that’s asking “What if I never get hired again?”. I’ve always been someone who tries to plan ahead for the future so having a career that’s constantly uncertain can be worrisome, but I feel like I’ve been able to figure out my own ways of staying organized and allowing some wiggle-room for uncertainty.
Mack Garrison:
For any studios or agencies reading this post, what's the number one takeaway they should know when booking a freelancer?
Zak Tietjen:
I’m not really sure I have any advice for just studios or agencies, but I do usually try to approach working relationships like friendships. We’ve all had a friend who didn’t treat you the same as you treated them. Maybe you’re the one who always paid for food or you helped them move into their new place but they can’t help you when you need it. So I try to see things from both sides.
I’ve been fortunate enough to build up some nice relationships with studios who hire me often and when they do something kind for me, I’m definitely going to remember that and return the favor. Let’s say it’s 7pm on a Friday and the client has some easy last-minute feedback (easy being a keyword haha). If I’m at home, I don’t mind quickly changing that for the studio because one day my kids will be home sick from school and I’ll have a slow day or maybe I need to take my dog to the vet, etc.
Showing kindness or understanding in a working relationship goes a long way, and if you don’t take advantage of it (freelancers or studios & agencies), I think the output of work is likely to improve, in my experience.
Mack Garrison:
What are you most excited about with the future of Motion Design?
Zak Tietjen:
A bit of projecting here, I’m sure, but I’m super excited for all of the motion dads & moms! Relatively speaking, I’m still pretty young in this industry (the peppered gray in my hair would disagree), so I’m always wondering what kind of longevity I have as a freelance animator/designer. From my experience, typically you would hustle in a big city (L.A., New York, etc.) and either become a Creative/Art Director, or open your own studio and eventually you’d find your way to retirement.
Well, things seem to be changing now. You no longer have to live in those big cities to get work or grow as an artist and some people are just rocking it as amazing freelancers. That and now people being more open about a healthier work/life balance, and many are relocating and starting families. I’m just excited to see where that takes us as an industry. Will I still be jamming as a 60 year old freelance animator? (Can you throw my face through one of those aging filters please haha)
Mack Garrison:
Anything else you'd like to share with our readers?
Zak Tietjen:
This industry can feel so large and daunting but all takes is a simple trip out to a conference (Dash Bash Vol. 2, anyone?) to make it all feel small again. There are so many wonderful and kind people that I constantly bump into both online and at meet-ups, and I’m incredibly grateful for all of the friends I’ve made. There’s nothing better than seeing another friend pop-up on a kick-off call, on the 1st day of a long booking.
By nature I’m an introverted person, but I extremely value the friends and connections I’ve made along the way. So if you haven’t tried to put yourself out there and go to some in-person meetups, I highly recommend it!
Mack Garrison:
Thanks so much, Zak! This was a great chat and I know a lot of folks will be happy to have your insight. And see you at the Bash this July!